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Main
Date: 03 Oct 2007 05:26:23
From:
Subject: Turning signals and left-side drive
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I wondered if it is acceptable to indicate you are going to make a
left turn by pointing your right forearm upward (opposite to
indicating that you are going to make a right turn by pointing your
left forearm upward). I have never seen this shown as a correct way of
signaling, so I wondered if it is technically not a legal way to
signal. Also is there any special reason why the bicycle industry
never seems to consider offering, for the sake of granting cyclists a
choice in the area, left side drive (hubs, freewheels, derailleurs,
and kickstands would have to be made reversed, granted, but this does
not sound like that much when you consider that this country has sent
men to the moon and back)?
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Date: 07 Oct 2007 10:31:48
From: Zog The Undeniable
Subject: Re: Turning signals and left-side drive
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edward7156@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> I wondered if it is acceptable to indicate you are going to make a
> left turn by pointing your right forearm upward (opposite to
> indicating that you are going to make a right turn by pointing your
> left forearm upward). I have never seen this shown as a correct way of
> signaling, so I wondered if it is technically not a legal way to
> signal. Also is there any special reason why the bicycle industry
> never seems to consider offering, for the sake of granting cyclists a
> choice in the area, left side drive (hubs, freewheels, derailleurs,
> and kickstands would have to be made reversed, granted, but this does
> not sound like that much when you consider that this country has sent
> men to the moon and back)?
>
In the UK (driving on the left, driver sitting on the right) the hand
signal for turning left *when driving a car* is to stick your right arm
out of the window and move it in circles. As far as I know this isn't
an acceptable option for two-wheeled vehicles.
The US "bent arm" signal for turning to the opposite side is actually
preferable, because the UK signal, viewed from any distance, is easily
confused with the up-and-down one for slowing down. Not that anyone
uses hand signals any more...or even indicators :-/
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Date: 04 Oct 2007 10:38:41
From: mike.a.schwab@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Turning signals and left-side drive
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On Oct 3, 7:26 am, edward7...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> I wondered if it is acceptable to indicate you are going to make a
> left turn by pointing your right forearm upward (opposite to
> indicating that you are going to make a right turn by pointing your
> left forearm upward). I have never seen this shown as a correct way of
> signaling, so I wondered if it is technically not a legal way to
> signal.
AKA Right Turn Clyde? (Any Which Way ... movies)
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 13:23:15
From:
Subject: Re: Turning signals and left-side drive
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On Oct 3, 7:28 am, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu >
wrote:
> On a bike, it makes sense to point in the direction you are
> going to turn. No one would misunderstand.
What's that quote about inventing a better idiot?
After I started riding again a few years back, I specifically looked
up the Colorado rules of the road on this subject. They were "mellow
U. S." standard:
- Left forearm raised - > right turn
- Left forearm extended - > left turn
- Left forearm downward - > braking
- Right forearm extended - > Alternate signal for right turn
My first week out, I go to the post office and signal my right turn
using the "alternate" method. A car following behind me pulled over,
and an old farm wife got out, excoriated my poor signalling technique,
and repeatedly demonstrated the Right Way To Do It.
I just stared at her until she got back in her car and drove off. The
place I live is crawling with cyclists of the neon-lycra variety who
only use the "special" hand signals known to every 6th grader. She
should have been on her knees thanking me.
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 12:01:01
From: DanKMTB@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Turning signals and left-side drive
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On Oct 3, 8:26 am, edward7...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> I wondered if it is acceptable to indicate you are going to make a
> left turn by pointing your right forearm upward (opposite to
> indicating that you are going to make a right turn by pointing your
> left forearm upward). I have never seen this shown as a correct way of
> signaling, so I wondered if it is technically not a legal way to
> signal. Also is there any special reason why the bicycle industry
> never seems to consider offering, for the sake of granting cyclists a
> choice in the area, left side drive (hubs, freewheels, derailleurs,
> and kickstands would have to be made reversed, granted, but this does
> not sound like that much when you consider that this country has sent
> men to the moon and back)?
BMX has both left and right hand drive. Left side drive is used by
some people who use their right pegs more, usually because they spin
counterclockwise better than clockwise. I don't think there would be
an advantage to left side drive on road or mountain bikes, though with
the way many mountain bikes are ridden these days it may be coming.
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 17:44:07
From: Victor Kan
Subject: Re: Turning signals and left-side drive
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On Oct 3, 9:28 am, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu >
wrote:
> Personally, on a bike, I see no reason for the (in the US) raised left
> arm to signal a right turn. In a car, yes, it makes sense, but only
> because pointing with your right arm would merely stick your finger into
> the passenger's ear, not out the window. On a bike, it makes sense to
> point in the direction you are going to turn. No one would misunderstand.
Similar to what bluezfolk wrote, signals must be received as well as
understood to be useful.
While I'd agree that signaling a right turn by pointing your right arm
out to the side *should* be easy to understand, it isn't necessarily
so since while everybody getting a drivers license in the U.S. learns
the left-handed signaling, only some learn that the "right hand out"
signal is an alternative, in some places localities, for some road
users, i.e. cyclists.
The second thing is whether the signal is received. In the U.S.,
signaling with your right hand is not as readily visible as signaling
with your left, especially when most cyclists on the road already ride
too far to the right. A signal that is even further out of the line
of sight of other road users is less likely to be received. If you
ride in the middle of the lane at time you signal the right turn,
that's less of a problem both in terms of visibility for your signal
and terms of likelihood of a following car not noticing that you'll be
slowing down and it's for a right term (so they will be less likely to
right hook you or try to pass before you make your turn).
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 08:05:33
From: JG
Subject: Re: Turning signals and left-side drive
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Signalling a right turn with an extended right hand is legal in the
US.
JG
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 16:20:28
From: Kristian M Zoerhoff
Subject: Re: Turning signals and left-side drive
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On 2007-10-03, JG <jchg@cox.net > wrote:
> Signalling a right turn with an extended right hand is legal in the
> US.
Not everywhere; vehicle codes vary from state-to-state. Illinois, for
instance, just legalized this motion, but the law doesn't technically take
effect until 1/1/2008.
--
__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ kristian.zoerhoff@gmail.com
(_)/ (_)
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 12:37:47
From: bluezfolk
Subject: Re: Turning signals and left-side drive
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On Oct 3, 7:26 am, edward7...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> I wondered if it is acceptable to indicate you are going to make a
> left turn by pointing your right forearm upward (opposite to
> indicating that you are going to make a right turn by pointing your
> left forearm upward). I have never seen this shown as a correct way of
> signaling, so I wondered if it is technically not a legal way to
> signal. Also is there any special reason why the bicycle industry
> never seems to consider offering, for the sake of granting cyclists a
> choice in the area, left side drive (hubs, freewheels, derailleurs,
> and kickstands would have to be made reversed, granted, but this does
> not sound like that much when you consider that this country has sent
> men to the moon and back)?
JMHO, signaling is for the benefit of others, to let them know your
intentions. Its best to use standardized signals and not to
improvise, for your own safety. If manufacturers saw a large market
for left side drives they'd probably make them (at a higher price, of
course), but obviously folks are all buying the right side drive.
Eric
Eric
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 09:28:13
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Turning signals and left-side drive
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bluezfolk wrote:
> On Oct 3, 7:26 am, edward7...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>> I wondered if it is acceptable to indicate you are going to make a
>> left turn by pointing your right forearm upward (opposite to
>> indicating that you are going to make a right turn by pointing your
>> left forearm upward). I have never seen this shown as a correct way of
>> signaling,
Maybe you're not looking in the "right" country.
Personally, on a bike, I see no reason for the (in the US) raised left
arm to signal a right turn. In a car, yes, it makes sense, but only
because pointing with your right arm would merely stick your finger into
the passenger's ear, not out the window. On a bike, it makes sense to
point in the direction you are going to turn. No one would misunderstand.
>> Also is there any special reason why the bicycle industry
>> never seems to consider offering, for the sake of granting cyclists a
>> choice in the area, left side drive (hubs, freewheels, derailleurs,
>> and kickstands would have to be made reversed, granted, but this does
>> not sound like that much when you consider that this country has sent
>> men to the moon and back)?
Maybe the industry is missing an opportunity, here. With so many other
"choices" they provide, few of which actually giving any realistic
advantage, here is one more to add to the list. I can just see someone
spending an extra grand to have left-hand drive after Buycycling mag
touts it as the next great thing, with added stiffness and compliance.
There was, at least originally, a legitimate reason for putting the
chain on the right side. If the sprocket or freewheel on the rear wheel
is threaded on, then on the right side it would have right-hand threads.
--
David L. Johnson
When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember that
your initial objective was to drain the swamp.
-- LBJ
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 12:00:03
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: Turning signals and left-side drive
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"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu > wrote in message
news:K82dnb2jE6CiBZ7anZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@ptd.net...
> Maybe the industry is missing an opportunity, here. With so many other
> "choices" they provide, few of which actually giving any realistic
> advantage, here is one more to add to the list. I can just see someone
> spending an extra grand to have left-hand drive after Buycycling mag touts
> it as the next great thing, with added stiffness and compliance.
...but this advantage would only be for left-handed people right? ...or
those whose left leg is stronger.
I can see the marketing now - why have the drive side removed so far from
the strongest leg - put it closer where it will do the most good.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 16:44:23
From: Ned Mantei
Subject: Re: Turning signals and left-side drive
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In article <K82dnb2jE6CiBZ7anZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@ptd.net >,
"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu > wrote:
>
> Personally, on a bike, I see no reason for the (in the US) raised left
> arm to signal a right turn. In a car, yes, it makes sense, but only
> because pointing with your right arm would merely stick your finger into
> the passenger's ear, not out the window. On a bike, it makes sense to
> point in the direction you are going to turn. No one would misunderstand.
>
>
Agreed. I learned in the U.S. to signal a right turn with the raised
left arm method. At some point I realized that none of my colleagues
here in Switzerland had ever heard of this method, so I now just point
with the right arm. Everyone seems to get the idea.
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