Ultegra SL group is coming!

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Date: 05 Jun 2007 22:17:18
From: bfd
Subject: Ultegra SL group is coming!

When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:

http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/

Bicycle Retailer write up:

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003593959

Enjoy, you know you want it...

Date: 09 Jun 2007 14:47:48
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 9, 3:57 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:

>
> IIRC, one prob with Sante was that the white finish was on the easy-to-
> scratch side of the spectrum, so the stuff could look pretty scruffy
> pretty quickly. But, there might still be some NOS stuff out there
> somewhere.

I've never managed to scratch the derailleur bodies on my road bikes
for some reason. However, even I might not be able to take the sight
of pale cranks, and would likely have to substitute classic suginos in
the event that such a retro ride came to fruition. I've been watching
Craigslist hoping for a much more likely 6 speed 105 bike of the era.
Tremendous kit that's stupid cheap to run.

Date: 09 Jun 2007 20:57:38
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 9, 1:41 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 9, 12:55 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 9, 12:15 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 9, 11:58 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jun 9, 11:47 am, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jun 6, 2:41 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Jun 6, 1:35 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Jun 6, 11:26 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Jun 6, 1:17 pm, "treyno...@my-deja.com"
>
> > > > > > > > <thomas.treyno...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Jun 6, 8:27 am, "yclept...@cs.com" <yclept...@cs.com> wrote:> On Jun 6, 8:49 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > > > > > > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 6, 7:42 am, Helmut Springer <delta+use...@lug-s.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Three. Damned. Ounces.
> > > > > > > > > > > > And a _special_ color!
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Generically, this might be called Shimano's "Edsel" group (Ford's ill-
> > > > > > > > > > > fated attempt to create a brand slotted between Mercury and Lincoln).
> > > > > > > > > > > Last time around, Shimano called it "Sante"; it had a special finish,
> > > > > > > > > > > too.
>
> > > > > > > > > > I thought Sante was Shimano's Edsel group. It truly is deja vu all
> > > > > > > > > > over again
>
> > > > > > > > > As I read the article I was also thinking of the Sante group. The
> > > > > > > > > Sante was stylized 600 group, this is a stylized Ultegra group. The
> > > > > > > > > Sante was white, this one is "ice-gray". It will likely meet the same
> > > > > > > > > fate.
>
> > > > > > > > > I have an 88 Schwinn Circuit with a Sante group on it. The bike is
> > > > > > > > > great, like a Paramount that no one knows about. I keep the Sante
> > > > > > > > > components to have the retro look. They work well, though.
>
> > > > > > > > Yeah, there was nothing technically wrong with the Sante group. It was
> > > > > > > > just over-priced 600 (although, IIRC, it had 7sp available before 600
> > > > > > > > did) marketed to the brie-and-chablis crowd. There just weren't enough
> > > > > > > > buyers.....
>
> > > > > > > It had 7sp before Dura-Ace, too, IIRC.-
>
> > > > > > I do not believe so. The first Shimano 7sp was DA, ca. 1987.
>
> > > > > Sante was introduced in 1987. This brochure indicates that DA only had
> > > > > 6-speed at that time.http://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/shimanosante/images/12and13.jpg-
>
> > > > D-A 7 speed came out in '87. It was "beta tested" by the 7-11 team
> > > > (among others?) during the '86 season. Sante may have followed with 7
> > > > sp very shortly thereafter. "Being first" with an innovation was and
> > > > is very important to the very carefully maintained D-A image.
>
> > > "And Sante's7-speed freehub gives you a wider gear choice than Dura-
> > > Ace 6-speed."
>
> > > sez the brochure. It also insinuates that Dura-Ace is the king of
> > > ruggedness, etc
>
> > Yeah, I saw that....
>
> > But I'm still pretty sure D-A 7 "hit the road" (at least here in the
> > US) first. Maybe it was a lack of Sante sales that left that
> > impression (?).

Further thoughts::

Ya know, now that I think further, Sante might well have had 7sp
before D-A (but not by much). At that time, Shimano was still being
very conservative with D-A, as they were still wooing racers weaned on
the 'conservative' (or is 'moribund' a better word) paradigm
established by Campagnolo with Record/NR/SR. Another example of this
would be that the emerging 105 components had the "SLR" brake scheme
prior to D-A.

(Of course, Dura-Ace AX *did* have a 'wide-spaced' 7sp freehub before
any of this other stuff existed, but they sold in very small numbers.)

>
> TBH, I subscribed to Bicycling magazine back then and frequented a
> local shop--and I don't even remember the group. It would be fun to
> build up a bike with it as an homage to the era, white hoods, pink
> Benotto and housing, etc

IIRC, one prob with Sante was that the white finish was on the easy-to-
scratch side of the spectrum, so the stuff could look pretty scruffy
pretty quickly. But, there might still be some NOS stuff out there
somewhere.

Date: 12 Jun 2007 13:16:59
From: Bob in CT
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 16:57:38 -0400, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:

> On Jun 9, 1:41 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 9, 12:55 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>> > On Jun 9, 12:15 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > On Jun 9, 11:58 am, Ozark Bicycle
>>
>> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>> > > > On Jun 9, 11:47 am, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>>
>> > > > > On Jun 6, 2:41 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>>
>> > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > On Jun 6, 1:35 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > > On Jun 6, 11:26 am, Ozark Bicycle
>>
>> > > > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > On Jun 6, 1:17 pm, "treyno...@my-deja.com"
>>
>> > > > > > > > <thomas.treyno...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > On Jun 6, 8:27 am, "yclept...@cs.com"
>> <yclept...@cs.com> wrote:> On Jun 6, 8:49 am, Ozark Bicycle
>> > > > > > > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 6, 7:42 am, Helmut Springer
>> <delta+use...@lug-s.org> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > > > Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Three. Damned. Ounces.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > And a _special_ color!
>>
>> > > > > > > > > > > Generically, this might be called Shimano's "Edsel"
>> group (Ford's ill-
>> > > > > > > > > > > fated attempt to create a brand slotted between
>> Mercury and Lincoln).
>> > > > > > > > > > > Last time around, Shimano called it "Sante"; it had
>> a special finish,
>> > > > > > > > > > > too.
>>
>> > > > > > > > > > I thought Sante was Shimano's Edsel group. It truly
>> is deja vu all
>> > > > > > > > > > over again
>>
>> > > > > > > > > As I read the article I was also thinking of the Sante
>> group. The
>> > > > > > > > > Sante was stylized 600 group, this is a stylized
>> Ultegra group. The
>> > > > > > > > > Sante was white, this one is "ice-gray". It will
>> likely meet the same
>> > > > > > > > > fate.
>>
>> > > > > > > > > I have an 88 Schwinn Circuit with a Sante group on it.
>> The bike is
>> > > > > > > > > great, like a Paramount that no one knows about. I
>> keep the Sante
>> > > > > > > > > components to have the retro look. They work well,
>> though.
>>
>> > > > > > > > Yeah, there was nothing technically wrong with the Sante
>> group. It was
>> > > > > > > > just over-priced 600 (although, IIRC, it had 7sp
>> available before 600
>> > > > > > > > did) marketed to the brie-and-chablis crowd. There just
>> weren't enough
>> > > > > > > > buyers.....
>>
>> > > > > > > It had 7sp before Dura-Ace, too, IIRC.-
>>
>> > > > > > I do not believe so. The first Shimano 7sp was DA, ca. 1987.
>>
>> > > > > Sante was introduced in 1987. This brochure indicates that DA
>> only had
>> > > > > 6-speed at that
>> time.http://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/shimanosante/images/12and13.jpg-
>>
>> > > > D-A 7 speed came out in '87. It was "beta tested" by the 7-11 team
>> > > > (among others?) during the '86 season. Sante may have followed
>> with 7
>> > > > sp very shortly thereafter. "Being first" with an innovation was
>> and
>> > > > is very important to the very carefully maintained D-A image.
>>
>> > > "And Sante's7-speed freehub gives you a wider gear choice than Dura-
>> > > Ace 6-speed."
>>
>> > > sez the brochure. It also insinuates that Dura-Ace is the king of
>> > > ruggedness, etc
>>
>> > Yeah, I saw that....
>>
>> > But I'm still pretty sure D-A 7 "hit the road" (at least here in the
>> > US) first. Maybe it was a lack of Sante sales that left that
>> > impression (?).
>
> Further thoughts::
>
> Ya know, now that I think further, Sante might well have had 7sp
> before D-A (but not by much). At that time, Shimano was still being
> very conservative with D-A, as they were still wooing racers weaned on
> the 'conservative' (or is 'moribund' a better word) paradigm
> established by Campagnolo with Record/NR/SR. Another example of this
> would be that the emerging 105 components had the "SLR" brake scheme
> prior to D-A.
>
> (Of course, Dura-Ace AX *did* have a 'wide-spaced' 7sp freehub before
> any of this other stuff existed, but they sold in very small numbers.)
>
>
>>
>> TBH, I subscribed to Bicycling magazine back then and frequented a
>> local shop--and I don't even remember the group. It would be fun to
>> build up a bike with it as an homage to the era, white hoods, pink
>> Benotto and housing, etc
>
> IIRC, one prob with Sante was that the white finish was on the easy-to-
> scratch side of the spectrum, so the stuff could look pretty scruffy
> pretty quickly. But, there might still be some NOS stuff out there
> somewhere.
>
>
>

I seem to remember my old Trek originally had a Sante crankset, but I
think that was it.

--
Bob in CT

Date: 09 Jun 2007 18:00:07
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 20:57:38 -0000, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:

>At that time, Shimano was still being
>very conservative with D-A, as they were still wooing racers weaned on
>the 'conservative' (or is 'moribund' a better word) paradigm
>established by Campagnolo with Record/NR/SR. Another example of this
>would be that the emerging 105 components had the "SLR" brake scheme
>prior to D-A.

It's funny how you always find ways to use perjorative terms in
discussing people using racing equipment. If you perceive those
riders as conservative or careful, you throw in "moribund." If those
riders are being aggressive in looking for tiny advantages, they're
"wannabees" and foolish.

What is it that makes you so bitter about riders who are more athletic
than you? Some bad experience in the past? Or what?
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Date: 09 Jun 2007 18:41:04
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 9, 12:55 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jun 9, 12:15 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 9, 11:58 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Jun 9, 11:47 am, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jun 6, 2:41 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Jun 6, 1:35 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Jun 6, 11:26 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Jun 6, 1:17 pm, "treyno...@my-deja.com"
>
> > > > > > > <thomas.treyno...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Jun 6, 8:27 am, "yclept...@cs.com" <yclept...@cs.com> wrote:> On Jun 6, 8:49 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > > > > > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Jun 6, 7:42 am, Helmut Springer <delta+use...@lug-s.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Three. Damned. Ounces.
> > > > > > > > > > > And a _special_ color!
>
> > > > > > > > > > Generically, this might be called Shimano's "Edsel" group (Ford's ill-
> > > > > > > > > > fated attempt to create a brand slotted between Mercury and Lincoln).
> > > > > > > > > > Last time around, Shimano called it "Sante"; it had a special finish,
> > > > > > > > > > too.
>
> > > > > > > > > I thought Sante was Shimano's Edsel group. It truly is deja vu all
> > > > > > > > > over again
>
> > > > > > > > As I read the article I was also thinking of the Sante group. The
> > > > > > > > Sante was stylized 600 group, this is a stylized Ultegra group. The
> > > > > > > > Sante was white, this one is "ice-gray". It will likely meet the same
> > > > > > > > fate.
>
> > > > > > > > I have an 88 Schwinn Circuit with a Sante group on it. The bike is
> > > > > > > > great, like a Paramount that no one knows about. I keep the Sante
> > > > > > > > components to have the retro look. They work well, though.
>
> > > > > > > Yeah, there was nothing technically wrong with the Sante group. It was
> > > > > > > just over-priced 600 (although, IIRC, it had 7sp available before 600
> > > > > > > did) marketed to the brie-and-chablis crowd. There just weren't enough
> > > > > > > buyers.....
>
> > > > > > It had 7sp before Dura-Ace, too, IIRC.-
>
> > > > > I do not believe so. The first Shimano 7sp was DA, ca. 1987.
>
> > > > Sante was introduced in 1987. This brochure indicates that DA only had
> > > > 6-speed at that time.http://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/shimanosante/images/12and13.jpg-
>
> > > D-A 7 speed came out in '87. It was "beta tested" by the 7-11 team
> > > (among others?) during the '86 season. Sante may have followed with 7
> > > sp very shortly thereafter. "Being first" with an innovation was and
> > > is very important to the very carefully maintained D-A image.
>
> > "And Sante's7-speed freehub gives you a wider gear choice than Dura-
> > Ace 6-speed."
>
> > sez the brochure. It also insinuates that Dura-Ace is the king of
> > ruggedness, etc
>
> Yeah, I saw that....
>
> But I'm still pretty sure D-A 7 "hit the road" (at least here in the
> US) first. Maybe it was a lack of Sante sales that left that
> impression (?).

TBH, I subscribed to Bicycling magazine back then and frequented a
local shop--and I don't even remember the group. It would be fun to
build up a bike with it as an homage to the era, white hoods, pink
Benotto and housing, etc.

Date: 09 Jun 2007 17:55:22
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 9, 12:15 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 9, 11:58 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 9, 11:47 am, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 6, 2:41 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jun 6, 1:35 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jun 6, 11:26 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Jun 6, 1:17 pm, "treyno...@my-deja.com"
>
> > > > > > <thomas.treyno...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Jun 6, 8:27 am, "yclept...@cs.com" <yclept...@cs.com> wrote:> On Jun 6, 8:49 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > > > > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Jun 6, 7:42 am, Helmut Springer <delta+use...@lug-s.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Three. Damned. Ounces.
> > > > > > > > > > And a _special_ color!
>
> > > > > > > > > Generically, this might be called Shimano's "Edsel" group (Ford's ill-
> > > > > > > > > fated attempt to create a brand slotted between Mercury and Lincoln).
> > > > > > > > > Last time around, Shimano called it "Sante"; it had a special finish,
> > > > > > > > > too.
>
> > > > > > > > I thought Sante was Shimano's Edsel group. It truly is deja vu all
> > > > > > > > over again
>
> > > > > > > As I read the article I was also thinking of the Sante group. The
> > > > > > > Sante was stylized 600 group, this is a stylized Ultegra group. The
> > > > > > > Sante was white, this one is "ice-gray". It will likely meet the same
> > > > > > > fate.
>
> > > > > > > I have an 88 Schwinn Circuit with a Sante group on it. The bike is
> > > > > > > great, like a Paramount that no one knows about. I keep the Sante
> > > > > > > components to have the retro look. They work well, though.
>
> > > > > > Yeah, there was nothing technically wrong with the Sante group. It was
> > > > > > just over-priced 600 (although, IIRC, it had 7sp available before 600
> > > > > > did) marketed to the brie-and-chablis crowd. There just weren't enough
> > > > > > buyers.....
>
> > > > > It had 7sp before Dura-Ace, too, IIRC.-
>
> > > > I do not believe so. The first Shimano 7sp was DA, ca. 1987.
>
> > > Sante was introduced in 1987. This brochure indicates that DA only had
> > > 6-speed at that time.http://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/shimanosante/images/12and13.jpg-
>
> > D-A 7 speed came out in '87. It was "beta tested" by the 7-11 team
> > (among others?) during the '86 season. Sante may have followed with 7
> > sp very shortly thereafter. "Being first" with an innovation was and
> > is very important to the very carefully maintained D-A image.
>
> "And Sante's7-speed freehub gives you a wider gear choice than Dura-
> Ace 6-speed."
>
> sez the brochure. It also insinuates that Dura-Ace is the king of
> ruggedness, etc

Yeah, I saw that....

But I'm still pretty sure D-A 7 "hit the road" (at least here in the
US) first. Maybe it was a lack of Sante sales that left that
impression (?).

Date: 09 Jun 2007 17:15:15
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 9, 11:58 am, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jun 9, 11:47 am, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 6, 2:41 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Jun 6, 1:35 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jun 6, 11:26 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Jun 6, 1:17 pm, "treyno...@my-deja.com"
>
> > > > > <thomas.treyno...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Jun 6, 8:27 am, "yclept...@cs.com" <yclept...@cs.com> wrote:> On Jun 6, 8:49 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > > > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Jun 6, 7:42 am, Helmut Springer <delta+use...@lug-s.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Three. Damned. Ounces.
> > > > > > > > > And a _special_ color!
>
> > > > > > > > Generically, this might be called Shimano's "Edsel" group (Ford's ill-
> > > > > > > > fated attempt to create a brand slotted between Mercury and Lincoln).
> > > > > > > > Last time around, Shimano called it "Sante"; it had a special finish,
> > > > > > > > too.
>
> > > > > > > I thought Sante was Shimano's Edsel group. It truly is deja vu all
> > > > > > > over again
>
> > > > > > As I read the article I was also thinking of the Sante group. The
> > > > > > Sante was stylized 600 group, this is a stylized Ultegra group. The
> > > > > > Sante was white, this one is "ice-gray". It will likely meet the same
> > > > > > fate.
>
> > > > > > I have an 88 Schwinn Circuit with a Sante group on it. The bike is
> > > > > > great, like a Paramount that no one knows about. I keep the Sante
> > > > > > components to have the retro look. They work well, though.
>
> > > > > Yeah, there was nothing technically wrong with the Sante group. It was
> > > > > just over-priced 600 (although, IIRC, it had 7sp available before 600
> > > > > did) marketed to the brie-and-chablis crowd. There just weren't enough
> > > > > buyers.....
>
> > > > It had 7sp before Dura-Ace, too, IIRC.-
>
> > > I do not believe so. The first Shimano 7sp was DA, ca. 1987.
>
> > Sante was introduced in 1987. This brochure indicates that DA only had
> > 6-speed at that time.http://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/shimanosante/images/12and13.jpg-
>
> D-A 7 speed came out in '87. It was "beta tested" by the 7-11 team
> (among others?) during the '86 season. Sante may have followed with 7
> sp very shortly thereafter. "Being first" with an innovation was and
> is very important to the very carefully maintained D-A image.

"And Sante's7-speed freehub gives you a wider gear choice than Dura-
Ace 6-speed."

sez the brochure. It also insinuates that Dura-Ace is the king of
ruggedness, etc...

Date: 09 Jun 2007 16:58:39
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 9, 11:47 am, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 2:41 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 6, 1:35 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 6, 11:26 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jun 6, 1:17 pm, "treyno...@my-deja.com"
>
> > > > <thomas.treyno...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Jun 6, 8:27 am, "yclept...@cs.com" <yclept...@cs.com> wrote:> On Jun 6, 8:49 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Jun 6, 7:42 am, Helmut Springer <delta+use...@lug-s.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Three. Damned. Ounces.
> > > > > > > > And a _special_ color!
>
> > > > > > > Generically, this might be called Shimano's "Edsel" group (Ford's ill-
> > > > > > > fated attempt to create a brand slotted between Mercury and Lincoln).
> > > > > > > Last time around, Shimano called it "Sante"; it had a special finish,
> > > > > > > too.
>
> > > > > > I thought Sante was Shimano's Edsel group. It truly is deja vu all
> > > > > > over again
>
> > > > > As I read the article I was also thinking of the Sante group. The
> > > > > Sante was stylized 600 group, this is a stylized Ultegra group. The
> > > > > Sante was white, this one is "ice-gray". It will likely meet the same
> > > > > fate.
>
> > > > > I have an 88 Schwinn Circuit with a Sante group on it. The bike is
> > > > > great, like a Paramount that no one knows about. I keep the Sante
> > > > > components to have the retro look. They work well, though.
>
> > > > Yeah, there was nothing technically wrong with the Sante group. It was
> > > > just over-priced 600 (although, IIRC, it had 7sp available before 600
> > > > did) marketed to the brie-and-chablis crowd. There just weren't enough
> > > > buyers.....
>
> > > It had 7sp before Dura-Ace, too, IIRC.-
>
> > I do not believe so. The first Shimano 7sp was DA, ca. 1987.
>
> Sante was introduced in 1987. This brochure indicates that DA only had
> 6-speed at that time.http://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/shimanosante/images/12and13.jpg-

D-A 7 speed came out in '87. It was "beta tested" by the 7-11 team
(among others?) during the '86 season. Sante may have followed with 7
sp very shortly thereafter. "Being first" with an innovation was and
is very important to the very carefully maintained D-A image.

Date: 09 Jun 2007 09:47:10
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 2:41 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 1:35 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 6, 11:26 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Jun 6, 1:17 pm, "treyno...@my-deja.com"
>
> > > <thomas.treyno...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jun 6, 8:27 am, "yclept...@cs.com" <yclept...@cs.com> wrote:> On Jun 6, 8:49 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Jun 6, 7:42 am, Helmut Springer <delta+use...@lug-s.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Three. Damned. Ounces.
> > > > > > > And a _special_ color!
>
> > > > > > Generically, this might be called Shimano's "Edsel" group (Ford's ill-
> > > > > > fated attempt to create a brand slotted between Mercury and Lincoln).
> > > > > > Last time around, Shimano called it "Sante"; it had a special finish,
> > > > > > too.
>
> > > > > I thought Sante was Shimano's Edsel group. It truly is deja vu all
> > > > > over again
>
> > > > As I read the article I was also thinking of the Sante group. The
> > > > Sante was stylized 600 group, this is a stylized Ultegra group. The
> > > > Sante was white, this one is "ice-gray". It will likely meet the same
> > > > fate.
>
> > > > I have an 88 Schwinn Circuit with a Sante group on it. The bike is
> > > > great, like a Paramount that no one knows about. I keep the Sante
> > > > components to have the retro look. They work well, though.
>
> > > Yeah, there was nothing technically wrong with the Sante group. It was
> > > just over-priced 600 (although, IIRC, it had 7sp available before 600
> > > did) marketed to the brie-and-chablis crowd. There just weren't enough
> > > buyers.....
>
> > It had 7sp before Dura-Ace, too, IIRC.-
>
> I do not believe so. The first Shimano 7sp was DA, ca. 1987.

Sante was introduced in 1987. This brochure indicates that DA only had
6-speed at that time.
http://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/shimanosante/images/12and13.jpg

Date: 08 Jun 2007 21:25:08
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 8, 11:04 am, "yclept...@cs.com" <yclept...@cs.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 2:17 pm, "treyno...@my-deja.com"
>
>
>
>
>
> <thomas.treyno...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 6, 8:27 am, "yclept...@cs.com" <yclept...@cs.com> wrote:> On Jun 6, 8:49 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jun 6, 7:42 am, Helmut Springer <delta+use...@lug-s.org> wrote:
> > > > > Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> > > > > > Three. Damned. Ounces.
> > > > > And a _special_ color!
>
> > > > Generically, this might be called Shimano's "Edsel" group (Ford's ill-
> > > > fated attempt to create a brand slotted between Mercury and Lincoln).
> > > > Last time around, Shimano called it "Sante"; it had a special finish,
> > > > too.
>
> > > I thought Sante was Shimano's Edsel group. It truly is deja vu all
> > > over again
>
> > As I read the article I was also thinking of the Sante group. The
> > Sante was stylized 600 group, this is a stylized Ultegra group. The
> > Sante was white, this one is "ice-gray". It will likely meet the same
> > fate.
>
> > I have an 88 Schwinn Circuit with a Sante group on it. The bike is
> > great, like a Paramount that no one knows about. I keep the Sante
> > components to have the retro look. They work well, though.
>
> > Tom
>
> I've got a pair of Sante hubs on my commuter bike that I bought years
> ago at a Nashbar outlet in No. Va. for a couple of bucks and built
> into a wheelset. I put a 8 speed freehub on it some years ago and the
> hubs have been bulletproof for 12 years or so of commuting.
>

When Shimano gave up on Sante and dumped the stuff in the marketplace,
there were some great values available. Sante was good stuff, just
unfortunately aimed at a market that didn't exist in sufficient
numbers and awkwardly wedged, price-wise, between 600 and Dura-Ace.
IOW, an "Edsel".

Date: 08 Jun 2007 09:04:07
From: ycleptor2@cs.com
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 2:17 pm, "treyno...@my-deja.com"
<thomas.treyno...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 8:27 am, "yclept...@cs.com" <yclept...@cs.com> wrote:> On Jun 6, 8:49 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Jun 6, 7:42 am, Helmut Springer <delta+use...@lug-s.org> wrote:
> > > > Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> > > > > Three. Damned. Ounces.
> > > > And a _special_ color!
>
> > > Generically, this might be called Shimano's "Edsel" group (Ford's ill-
> > > fated attempt to create a brand slotted between Mercury and Lincoln).
> > > Last time around, Shimano called it "Sante"; it had a special finish,
> > > too.
>
> > I thought Sante was Shimano's Edsel group. It truly is deja vu all
> > over again
>
> As I read the article I was also thinking of the Sante group. The
> Sante was stylized 600 group, this is a stylized Ultegra group. The
> Sante was white, this one is "ice-gray". It will likely meet the same
> fate.
>
> I have an 88 Schwinn Circuit with a Sante group on it. The bike is
> great, like a Paramount that no one knows about. I keep the Sante
> components to have the retro look. They work well, though.
>
> Tom

I've got a pair of Sante hubs on my commuter bike that I bought years
ago at a Nashbar outlet in No. Va. for a couple of bucks and built
into a wheelset. I put a 8 speed freehub on it some years ago and the
hubs have been bulletproof for 12 years or so of commuting.

Mike

Date: 07 Jun 2007 16:09:55
From:
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 7:06 pm, Jay Beattie <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 12:10 pm, eowe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 6, 1:17 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> > > bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> > >http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>
> > > Bicycle Retailer write up:
>
> > >http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
>
> > > Enjoy, you know you want it...
>
> > According to the Bicycle Retailer write-up, "The new group is
> > available in a unique Ice Grey color and drops close to 100 grams from
> > Ultegra."
>
> > According to the Shimano website, a 170mm DA crank weighs 740 grams
> > with BB, versus 839 grams for the Ultegra Crank/BB.
>
> > So you can net the same weight savings by upgrading to a DA crank on
> > an otherwise all-Ultegra drivetrain.
>
> Or by changing your inner tubes.http://tinyurl.com/hd24o That might
> set you back ten bucks. -- Jay Beattie.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Wouldn't it still be Shimano even if it weighs less?

Date: 07 Jun 2007 08:17:23
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 7, 5:09 am, gill...@cs.ubc.ca (Donald Gillies) wrote:
> bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> writes:
> >When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> >bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> When I wanna gofast, I reach down and lift the tire savers so they're
> no longer rubbing against the tires. problem solved.

Reminds me of my 1.3L car--I've relabeled the air-con button to
"turbo", because when you switch it off, you gain something like 25%
more power.

Date: 07 Jun 2007 10:48:28
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 7, 5:09 am, gill...@cs.ubc.ca (Donald Gillies) wrote:
> bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> writes:
> >When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> >bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> When I wanna gofast, I reach down and lift the tire savers so they're
> no longer rubbing against the tires. problem solved.
>

Do you have the latest, greatest CF/titanium tire savers? Only 7.78gr.
per wheel.

Date: 07 Jun 2007 07:25:46
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:48:28 -0000, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:

>On Jun 7, 5:09 am, gill...@cs.ubc.ca (Donald Gillies) wrote:
>> bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> writes:
>> >When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
>> >bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>>
>> When I wanna gofast, I reach down and lift the tire savers so they're
>> no longer rubbing against the tires. problem solved.
>>
>
>Do you have the latest, greatest CF/titanium tire savers? Only 7.78gr.
>per wheel.

Ozark -- we know you're afraid to show yourself in a picture online.
But are their any pictures of your bike you could share?

--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Date: 07 Jun 2007 03:09:15
From: Donald Gillies
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

bfd <bfd853@yahoo.com > writes:

>When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
>bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:

When I wanna gofast, I reach down and lift the tire savers so they're
no longer rubbing against the tires. problem solved.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Date: 07 Jun 2007 02:37:45
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 9:32 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> bfd wrote:
> > When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> > bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
> >http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
> > Bicycle Retailer write up:
> >http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
> > Enjoy, you know you want it...
>
> gee, 3 ounces lighter. Is it priced like Veloce yet or still expensive?
>

Depends; are you an OEM, or just a cyclist? ;-)

Date: 06 Jun 2007 21:32:50
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

bfd wrote:
> When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
> http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
> Bicycle Retailer write up:
> http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003593959
> Enjoy, you know you want it...

gee, 3 ounces lighter. Is it priced like Veloce yet or still expensive?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Date: 07 Jun 2007 01:45:00
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 8:23 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 8:05 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 6, 7:06 pm, Jay Beattie <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 6, 12:10 pm, eowe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On Jun 6, 1:17 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> > > > > bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> > > > >http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>
> > > > > Bicycle Retailer write up:
>
> > > > >http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
>
> > > > > Enjoy, you know you want it...
>
> > > > According to the Bicycle Retailer write-up, "The new group is
> > > > available in a unique Ice Grey color and drops close to 100 grams from
> > > > Ultegra."
>
> > > > According to the Shimano website, a 170mm DA crank weighs 740 grams
> > > > with BB, versus 839 grams for the Ultegra Crank/BB.
>
> > > > So you can net the same weight savings by upgrading to a DA crank on
> > > > an otherwise all-Ultegra drivetrain.
>
> > > Or by changing your inner tubes.http://tinyurl.com/hd24oThat might
> > > set you back ten bucks. -- Jay Beattie.-
>
> > Yeah, but can't ya do both? ;-)
>
> > (And pee, too?)
>
> If you're Elvis, does your pee count as rotating weight?

One pound on The Elvis equals two pounds on the bike (!).

Date: 07 Jun 2007 01:23:01
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 8:05 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 7:06 pm, Jay Beattie <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 6, 12:10 pm, eowe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 6, 1:17 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> > > > bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> > > >http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>
> > > > Bicycle Retailer write up:
>
> > > >http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
>
> > > > Enjoy, you know you want it...
>
> > > According to the Bicycle Retailer write-up, "The new group is
> > > available in a unique Ice Grey color and drops close to 100 grams from
> > > Ultegra."
>
> > > According to the Shimano website, a 170mm DA crank weighs 740 grams
> > > with BB, versus 839 grams for the Ultegra Crank/BB.
>
> > > So you can net the same weight savings by upgrading to a DA crank on
> > > an otherwise all-Ultegra drivetrain.
>
> > Or by changing your inner tubes.http://tinyurl.com/hd24o That might
> > set you back ten bucks. -- Jay Beattie.-
>
> Yeah, but can't ya do both? ;-)
>
> (And pee, too?)

If you're Elvis, does your pee count as rotating weight?

Date: 07 Jun 2007 01:05:16
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

Date: 06 Jun 2007 17:06:54
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 12:10 pm, eowe...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 6, 1:17 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> > bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> >http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>
> > Bicycle Retailer write up:
>
> >http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
>
> > Enjoy, you know you want it...
>
> According to the Bicycle Retailer write-up, "The new group is
> available in a unique Ice Grey color and drops close to 100 grams from
> Ultegra."
>
> According to the Shimano website, a 170mm DA crank weighs 740 grams
> with BB, versus 839 grams for the Ultegra Crank/BB.
>
> So you can net the same weight savings by upgrading to a DA crank on
> an otherwise all-Ultegra drivetrain.

Or by changing your inner tubes. http://tinyurl.com/hd24o That might
set you back ten bucks. -- Jay Beattie.

Date: 06 Jun 2007 21:43:13
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 3:54 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 1:22 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 6, 8:24 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 6, 7:38 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jun 6, 12:24 am, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jun 5, 10:17 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> > > > > > bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> > > > > >http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>
> > > > > > Bicycle Retailer write up:
>
> > > > > >http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
>
> > > > > > Enjoy, you know you want it...
>
> > > > > Three. Damned. Ounces.
>
> > > > Don't think "ounces", think "grams"; 97! 97! 97!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> > > Amusingly enough, the advert on the right side of the page offers an
> > > 1100g Brooks B73.-
>
> > When contemplating a Brooks, one must not think in terms of grams, or
> > even ounces. Think in pounds. That B73 is "only" 2.43 lbs. See how
> > this works?
>
> Or 0.17 stone!

Damn! Why didn't I think of that?

>Can't live without one now, eh?-

Why stop at one?? Put 'em on all yer bikes.

Date: 06 Jun 2007 21:41:27
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 1:35 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 11:26 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 6, 1:17 pm, "treyno...@my-deja.com"
>
> > <thomas.treyno...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Jun 6, 8:27 am, "yclept...@cs.com" <yclept...@cs.com> wrote:> On Jun 6, 8:49 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Jun 6, 7:42 am, Helmut Springer <delta+use...@lug-s.org> wrote:
> > > > > > Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > Three. Damned. Ounces.
> > > > > > And a _special_ color!
>
> > > > > Generically, this might be called Shimano's "Edsel" group (Ford's ill-
> > > > > fated attempt to create a brand slotted between Mercury and Lincoln).
> > > > > Last time around, Shimano called it "Sante"; it had a special finish,
> > > > > too.
>
> > > > I thought Sante was Shimano's Edsel group. It truly is deja vu all
> > > > over again
>
> > > As I read the article I was also thinking of the Sante group. The
> > > Sante was stylized 600 group, this is a stylized Ultegra group. The
> > > Sante was white, this one is "ice-gray". It will likely meet the same
> > > fate.
>
> > > I have an 88 Schwinn Circuit with a Sante group on it. The bike is
> > > great, like a Paramount that no one knows about. I keep the Sante
> > > components to have the retro look. They work well, though.
>
> > Yeah, there was nothing technically wrong with the Sante group. It was
> > just over-priced 600 (although, IIRC, it had 7sp available before 600
> > did) marketed to the brie-and-chablis crowd. There just weren't enough
> > buyers.....
>
> It had 7sp before Dura-Ace, too, IIRC.-
>

I do not believe so. The first Shimano 7sp was DA, ca. 1987.

Date: 06 Jun 2007 14:34:02
From: bfd
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 12:10 pm, eowe...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 6, 1:17 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> > bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> >http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>
> > Bicycle Retailer write up:
>
> >http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
>
> > Enjoy, you know you want it...
>
> According to the Bicycle Retailer write-up, "The new group is
> available in a unique Ice Grey color and drops close to 100 grams from
> Ultegra."
>
> According to the Shimano website, a 170mm DA crank weighs 740 grams
> with BB, versus 839 grams for the Ultegra Crank/BB.
>
> So you can net the same weight savings by upgrading to a DA crank on
> an otherwise all-Ultegra drivetrain.

Yeah, but that DA crank ain't gonna cost your $270!

Date: 06 Jun 2007 14:14:03
From: Scott Gordo
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 1:24 am, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net > wrote:
> On Jun 5, 10:17 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> > bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> >http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>
> > Bicycle Retailer write up:
>
> >http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
>
> > Enjoy, you know you want it...
>
> Three. Damned. Ounces.
>
> Seriously, dude, just pee before you ride.

To be fair, the quality of the brifter materials may have been
improved as well. From the bicycleretailer.com blurb:

"Almost half Ultegra SL's weight savings comes from redesigned
shifters. SL's $400 Dual Control levers feature more aluminum and now
share more of the same materials as the Dura Ace levers, saving 43
grams."

To continue with the crank/bb spindle:

"The $260 SL cranks now use a steel bottom bracket axle, machined from
billet, allowing less material to be used."

I'm assuming that the first comma is in error. The current, "regular"
Ultegra spindle is steel (right?), but presumably forged and not CNC'd
from billet.

Is the spindle "Ice Gray" too? Can't say I'm gaga over it.

/s

Date: 06 Jun 2007 13:54:01
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 1:22 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 8:24 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 6, 7:38 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Jun 6, 12:24 am, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jun 5, 10:17 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> > > > > bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> > > > >http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>
> > > > > Bicycle Retailer write up:
>
> > > > >http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
>
> > > > > Enjoy, you know you want it...
>
> > > > Three. Damned. Ounces.
>
> > > Don't think "ounces", think "grams"; 97! 97! 97!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> > Amusingly enough, the advert on the right side of the page offers an
> > 1100g Brooks B73.-
>
> When contemplating a Brooks, one must not think in terms of grams, or
> even ounces. Think in pounds. That B73 is "only" 2.43 lbs. See how
> this works?

Or 0.17 stone! Can't live without one now, eh?

Date: 06 Jun 2007 19:10:42
From:
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 1:17 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>
> Bicycle Retailer write up:
>
> http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
>
> Enjoy, you know you want it...

According to the Bicycle Retailer write-up, "The new group is
available in a unique Ice Grey color and drops close to 100 grams from
Ultegra."

According to the Shimano website, a 170mm DA crank weighs 740 grams
with BB, versus 839 grams for the Ultegra Crank/BB.

So you can net the same weight savings by upgrading to a DA crank on
an otherwise all-Ultegra drivetrain.

Date: 06 Jun 2007 11:35:46
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 10:30 am, Matt O'Toole <mattoto...@letterboxes.org > wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:17:18 -0700, bfd wrote:
> > When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> > bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> >http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>
> > Bicycle Retailer write up:
>
> >http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
>
> > Enjoy, you know you want it...
>
> I'm glad the plain silver is still available. While the gray might look
> nice when new, it'll look like crap when the crank is all scuffed and the
> rear derailer scratched after a few thousand miles.
>
> Matt O.

Exactly my thoughts in choosing silver over C.Grey Centaur.

Date: 06 Jun 2007 11:35:07
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 11:26 am, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 1:17 pm, "treyno...@my-deja.com"
>
>
>
> <thomas.treyno...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 6, 8:27 am, "yclept...@cs.com" <yclept...@cs.com> wrote:> On Jun 6, 8:49 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jun 6, 7:42 am, Helmut Springer <delta+use...@lug-s.org> wrote:
> > > > > Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> > > > > > Three. Damned. Ounces.
> > > > > And a _special_ color!
>
> > > > Generically, this might be called Shimano's "Edsel" group (Ford's ill-
> > > > fated attempt to create a brand slotted between Mercury and Lincoln).
> > > > Last time around, Shimano called it "Sante"; it had a special finish,
> > > > too.
>
> > > I thought Sante was Shimano's Edsel group. It truly is deja vu all
> > > over again
>
> > As I read the article I was also thinking of the Sante group. The
> > Sante was stylized 600 group, this is a stylized Ultegra group. The
> > Sante was white, this one is "ice-gray". It will likely meet the same
> > fate.
>
> > I have an 88 Schwinn Circuit with a Sante group on it. The bike is
> > great, like a Paramount that no one knows about. I keep the Sante
> > components to have the retro look. They work well, though.
>
> Yeah, there was nothing technically wrong with the Sante group. It was
> just over-priced 600 (although, IIRC, it had 7sp available before 600
> did) marketed to the brie-and-chablis crowd. There just weren't enough
> buyers.....

It had 7sp before Dura-Ace, too, IIRC.

Date: 06 Jun 2007 18:26:33
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 1:17 pm, "treyno...@my-deja.com"
<thomas.treyno...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 8:27 am, "yclept...@cs.com" <yclept...@cs.com> wrote:> On Jun 6, 8:49 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Jun 6, 7:42 am, Helmut Springer <delta+use...@lug-s.org> wrote:
> > > > Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> > > > > Three. Damned. Ounces.
> > > > And a _special_ color!
>
> > > Generically, this might be called Shimano's "Edsel" group (Ford's ill-
> > > fated attempt to create a brand slotted between Mercury and Lincoln).
> > > Last time around, Shimano called it "Sante"; it had a special finish,
> > > too.
>
> > I thought Sante was Shimano's Edsel group. It truly is deja vu all
> > over again
>
> As I read the article I was also thinking of the Sante group. The
> Sante was stylized 600 group, this is a stylized Ultegra group. The
> Sante was white, this one is "ice-gray". It will likely meet the same
> fate.
>
> I have an 88 Schwinn Circuit with a Sante group on it. The bike is
> great, like a Paramount that no one knows about. I keep the Sante
> components to have the retro look. They work well, though.
>
>

Yeah, there was nothing technically wrong with the Sante group. It was
just over-priced 600 (although, IIRC, it had 7sp available before 600
did) marketed to the brie-and-chablis crowd. There just weren't enough
buyers.....

Date: 06 Jun 2007 16:09:31
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 18:26:33 -0000, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:

>On Jun 6, 1:17 pm, "treyno...@my-deja.com"
><thomas.treyno...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 6, 8:27 am, "yclept...@cs.com" <yclept...@cs.com> wrote:> On Jun 6, 8:49 am, Ozark Bicycle
>> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>> > > On Jun 6, 7:42 am, Helmut Springer <delta+use...@lug-s.org> wrote:
>> > > > Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>> > > > > Three. Damned. Ounces.
>> > > > And a _special_ color!
>>
>> > > Generically, this might be called Shimano's "Edsel" group (Ford's ill-
>> > > fated attempt to create a brand slotted between Mercury and Lincoln).
>> > > Last time around, Shimano called it "Sante"; it had a special finish,
>> > > too.
>>
>> > I thought Sante was Shimano's Edsel group. It truly is deja vu all
>> > over again
>>
>> As I read the article I was also thinking of the Sante group. The
>> Sante was stylized 600 group, this is a stylized Ultegra group. The
>> Sante was white, this one is "ice-gray". It will likely meet the same
>> fate.
>>
>> I have an 88 Schwinn Circuit with a Sante group on it. The bike is
>> great, like a Paramount that no one knows about. I keep the Sante
>> components to have the retro look. They work well, though.
>>
>>
>
>Yeah, there was nothing technically wrong with the Sante group. It was
>just over-priced 600 (although, IIRC, it had 7sp available before 600
>did) marketed to the brie-and-chablis crowd. There just weren't enough
>buyers.....
Was it overpriced? I got some Sante stuff after they stopped making
it and have parts on my wife's and my own bike. Still works fine.

--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Date: 06 Jun 2007 18:22:26
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 8:24 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 7:38 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 6, 12:24 am, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 5, 10:17 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> > > > bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> > > >http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>
> > > > Bicycle Retailer write up:
>
> > > >http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
>
> > > > Enjoy, you know you want it...
>
> > > Three. Damned. Ounces.
>
> > Don't think "ounces", think "grams"; 97! 97! 97!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Amusingly enough, the advert on the right side of the page offers an
> 1100g Brooks B73.-

When contemplating a Brooks, one must not think in terms of grams, or
even ounces. Think in pounds. That B73 is "only" 2.43 lbs. See how
this works?

Date: 06 Jun 2007 18:17:53
From: treynolds@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 8:27 am, "yclept...@cs.com" <yclept...@cs.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 8:49 am, Ozark Bicycle
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 6, 7:42 am, Helmut Springer <delta+use...@lug-s.org> wrote:
> > > Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> > > > Three. Damned. Ounces.
> > > And a _special_ color!
>
> > Generically, this might be called Shimano's "Edsel" group (Ford's ill-
> > fated attempt to create a brand slotted between Mercury and Lincoln).
> > Last time around, Shimano called it "Sante"; it had a special finish,
> > too.
>
> I thought Sante was Shimano's Edsel group. It truly is deja vu all
> over again
>
As I read the article I was also thinking of the Sante group. The
Sante was stylized 600 group, this is a stylized Ultegra group. The
Sante was white, this one is "ice-gray". It will likely meet the same
fate.

I have an 88 Schwinn Circuit with a Sante group on it. The bike is
great, like a Paramount that no one knows about. I keep the Sante
components to have the retro look. They work well, though.

Tom

Date: 06 Jun 2007 11:05:12
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 3:30 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com >
wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:24:20 -0700, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net>
> wrote:
>
> >On Jun 5, 10:17 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> >> bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> >>http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>
> >> Bicycle Retailer write up:
>
> >>http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
>
> >> Enjoy, you know you want it...
>
> >Three. Damned. Ounces.
>
> >Seriously, dude, just pee before you ride.
>
> Can you do both. Seriously, does it have to be a choice?

Yes, it has to be a choice. You MAY NOT pee before using any
component in this group. It is absolutely forbidden. Read the
warranty card: "Urination may lead to dehydration, illness and in some
cases, death. Urinating immediately prior to using any Ultegr SL
component will void the applicable warranty." Vomiting is allowed, but
it shortens the warranty period to six weeks. -- Jay Beattie.

Date: 06 Jun 2007 13:30:47
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:17:18 -0700, bfd wrote:

> When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>
> Bicycle Retailer write up:
>
> http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003593959
>
> Enjoy, you know you want it...

I'm glad the plain silver is still available. While the gray might look
nice when new, it'll look like crap when the crank is all scuffed and the
rear derailer scratched after a few thousand miles.

Matt O.

Date: 06 Jun 2007 08:27:42
From: ycleptor2@cs.com
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

I thought Sante was Shimano's Edsel group. It truly is deja vu all
over again

On Jun 6, 8:49 am, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 7:42 am, Helmut Springer <delta+use...@lug-s.org> wrote:
>
> > Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> > > Three. Damned. Ounces.
>
> > And a _special_ color!
>
> Generically, this might be called Shimano's "Edsel" group (Ford's ill-
> fated attempt to create a brand slotted between Mercury and Lincoln).
> Last time around, Shimano called it "Sante"; it had a special finish,
> too.
>
> (Historical note: Campy had an "Edsel" group, as well. They called it
> Croce d'Aune; wedged between Chorus and Record.)
>
> Plus ca change, plus c'est le meme chose.

Date: 06 Jun 2007 06:24:12
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 7:38 am, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 12:24 am, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 5, 10:17 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> > > bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> > >http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>
> > > Bicycle Retailer write up:
>
> > >http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
>
> > > Enjoy, you know you want it...
>
> > Three. Damned. Ounces.
>
> Don't think "ounces", think "grams"; 97! 97! 97!!!!!!!!!!!
>
Amusingly enough, the advert on the right side of the page offers an
1100g Brooks B73.

Date: 06 Jun 2007 12:49:56
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 7:42 am, Helmut Springer <delta+use...@lug-s.org > wrote:
> Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> > Three. Damned. Ounces.
>
> And a _special_ color!
>

Generically, this might be called Shimano's "Edsel" group (Ford's ill-
fated attempt to create a brand slotted between Mercury and Lincoln).
Last time around, Shimano called it "Sante"; it had a special finish,
too.

(Historical note: Campy had an "Edsel" group, as well. They called it
Croce d'Aune; wedged between Chorus and Record.)

Plus ca change, plus c'est le meme chose.

Date: 06 Jun 2007 12:38:19
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 12:24 am, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net > wrote:
> On Jun 5, 10:17 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> > bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> >http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>
> > Bicycle Retailer write up:
>
> >http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
>
> > Enjoy, you know you want it...
>
> Three. Damned. Ounces.

Don't think "ounces", think "grams"; 97! 97! 97!!!!!!!!!!!

>
> Seriously, dude, just pee before you ride.

After you read the hype, you'll need to pee.

Date: 06 Jun 2007 12:31:11
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

UUNNNNGH AHHHHHH AHHHHHH AHHHHHH AHHHHHH

Date: 06 Jun 2007 03:47:53
From:
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 6, 5:30 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com >
wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:24:20 -0700, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net>
> wrote:
>
> >On Jun 5, 10:17 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> >> bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> >>http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>
> >> Bicycle Retailer write up:
>
> >>http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
>
> >> Enjoy, you know you want it...
>
> >Three. Damned. Ounces.
>
> >Seriously, dude, just pee before you ride.
>
> Can you do both. Seriously, does it have to be a choice?

Nah. Get Ultegra SL and that way you won't need to pee before you
ride. My question is whether the effect will last for the entire ride.
It seems like it should since the three ounce improvement lasts the
entire ride. I guees the down side is that if anyone considered SL as
a replacement for Dura Ace they might have to go to the bathroom more
often.

Date: 05 Jun 2007 22:24:20
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Jun 5, 10:17 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
> bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>
> http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>
> Bicycle Retailer write up:
>
> http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
>
> Enjoy, you know you want it...

Three. Damned. Ounces.

Seriously, dude, just pee before you ride.

Date: 06 Jun 2007 12:42:53
From: Helmut Springer
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

Hank Wirtz <hank@wirtznet.net > wrote:
> Three. Damned. Ounces.

And a _special_ color!

--
MfG/Best regards
helmut springer

Date: 06 Jun 2007 06:30:24
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:24:20 -0700, Hank Wirtz <hank@wirtznet.net >
wrote:

>On Jun 5, 10:17 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
>> bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>>
>> http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>>
>> Bicycle Retailer write up:
>>
>> http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
>>
>> Enjoy, you know you want it...
>
>Three. Damned. Ounces.
>
>Seriously, dude, just pee before you ride.

Can you do both. Seriously, does it have to be a choice?

--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Date: 06 Jun 2007 13:33:54
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Re: Ultegra SL group is coming!

On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 06:30:24 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:24:20 -0700, Hank Wirtz <hank@wirtznet.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On Jun 5, 10:17 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> When you ain't got the dough for Dura Ace, but NEED to *lighten* your
>>> bike, and wallet, Shimano now offers the Ultegra SL group:
>>>
>>> http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2007/06/01/shimano-ultegra-sl/
>>>
>>> Bicycle Retailer write up:
>>>
>>> http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/headlines/article_disp...
>>>
>>> Enjoy, you know you want it...
>>
>>Three. Damned. Ounces.
>>
>>Seriously, dude, just pee before you ride.
>
> Can you do both. Seriously, does it have to be a choice?

*You* can do both, and get your teeth pulled too, if that's what turns
your crank.

Matt O.