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Date: 19 Aug 2007 16:24:29
From: still me
Subject: Vintage Mavic Rim Styles
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Anyone familiar with vintage Mavic rim styles?
I noticed that a set of Mavic Monthlery Route rims I have are a couple
mm wider than the Championnet du Monde. Were the Monthlery's designed
for touring and the Championnet designed for "racing"? are there any
significant differences aside from the minor width difference?
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Date: 20 Aug 2007 16:29:00
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Vintage Mavic Rim Styles
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On Aug 20, 2:20 pm, still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On 19 Aug 2007 22:41:34 -0700, gill...@cs.ubc.ca (Donald Gillies)
> wrote:
>
> >still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >Oh i think the difference was like, 100 grams per rim. Did you happen
> >to pick them up, or were you just lurking on ebay ??
>
> I picked up a set laced to some SF normandy luxe hubs. They were a
> pull off a bike long ago. Another guy who didn't want tubies and the
> wheels got stuck in a basement. They sat too long someplace too moist
> so they need polishing, but otherwise they are NOS.
Sounds like my '69 PX10 OEM wheels. Montherlys were the cheapest
(IIRC) of the Mavic tubular rims. They were what we used before the
Mod E clinchers. Normandy hubs were also common for those of us who
could not afford Record hubs. Atoms were another substitute found on
bikes of the period.-- Jay Beattie.
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Date: 20 Aug 2007 23:02:19
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Vintage Mavic Rim Styles
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"Jay Beattie" <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com > wrote in message
news:1187652540.113965.95560@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 20, 2:20 pm, still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On 19 Aug 2007 22:41:34 -0700, gill...@cs.ubc.ca (Donald Gillies)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> writes:
> >
> > >Oh i think the difference was like, 100 grams per rim. Did you
happen
> > >to pick them up, or were you just lurking on ebay ??
> >
> > I picked up a set laced to some SF normandy luxe hubs. They were a
> > pull off a bike long ago. Another guy who didn't want tubies and the
> > wheels got stuck in a basement. They sat too long someplace too moist
> > so they need polishing, but otherwise they are NOS.
>
> Sounds like my '69 PX10 OEM wheels. Montherlys were the cheapest
> (IIRC) of the Mavic tubular rims. They were what we used before the
> Mod E clinchers. Normandy hubs were also common for those of us who
> could not afford Record hubs. Atoms were another substitute found on
> bikes of the period.-- Jay Beattie.
>
Mavic Sport rims were much cheaper models. There were no eyelets in the
rims. They used washers under the nipples.
I have one I use for stretching sewups, that's about all it's good for.
The quality order for tubular rims was no eyelets, single eyelets and
double eyelets.
I always liked Super Champion rims better than Mavic. The 330g Arc en Ciel
rims were my favorites.
Normandy Luxe hubs were the top models from Atom/Normandy/Maillard during
the early to mid 1970s and were the equivalent of Campy Nuovo Tipo hubs.
The early models lacked removable dust covers and replacement parts were
hard to find. Later versions had removable red plastic dust caps. They all
had a red foil label in the center of the hub.
The later model Maillard 700 hubs were highly polished and originally had
removable black plastic dust covers. They switched to metal dust covers
with labyrinth seals to keep dirt out of the bearings. These were also
sold with the Spidel label.
They were used on 1975 and 1977 Peugeot TdF winning bikes and the 1983
Gitane TdF bikes also used Maillard hubs.
I have several sets of these 700 hubs and they are far smoother that any
Campy hubs I have.
Chas.
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Date: 21 Aug 2007 01:22:45
From: still me
Subject: Re: Vintage Mavic Rim Styles
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:29:00 -0700, Jay Beattie
<jbeattie@lindsayhart.com > wrote:
>Sounds like my '69 PX10 OEM wheels. Montherlys were the cheapest
>(IIRC) of the Mavic tubular rims. They were what we used before the
>Mod E clinchers. Normandy hubs were also common for those of us who
>could not afford Record hubs. Atoms were another substitute found on
>bikes of the period.-- Jay Beattie.
Hey, some of us have _chosen_ not to have Italian parts on our Euro
steeds for purity reasons!
(We've also chosen not to move to clinchers, but that's another thread
and rather well worn :-)
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Date: 20 Aug 2007 00:27:31
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Vintage Mavic Rim Styles
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"still me" <wheeledBob@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:iargc39dps9qbhqatfcmq5knc2mt9sci55@4ax.com...
> Anyone familiar with vintage Mavic rim styles?
>
> I noticed that a set of Mavic Monthlery Route rims I have are a couple
> mm wider than the Championnet du Monde. Were the Monthlery's designed
> for touring and the Championnet designed for "racing"? are there any
> significant differences aside from the minor width difference?
>
>
Mavic Monthlery Route rims were 21.5mm wide with a 1.1mm wall thickness
and have double eyelets for spokes. They're relatively heavy rims at 420g
and were supplied OEM (Original Equipment Manufactures) on a lot of new
bikes. They were recommended for training, cyclocross and heavier riders.
Championnat du Monde rims were made up trough the 1970s, maybe later. I've
seen them with a number of different label variants such as Championnat du
Monde, Monthlery Championnat du Monde, Championnat du Monde Professionnel
and so on. I don't know the differences in these variations.
I have a Championnat du Monde Professionnel rim that I used on a front
wheel for cyclocross and off road riding about 20 years ago. I think that
weighs about a 390-410g. It still runs true after 4-5 years of off road
use.
Mavic's lighter weight rims were usually 20mm wide and made from 1.0mm or
.8mm wall thickness tubing.
They had a lot of different versions that seemed to change from year to
year.
Here's a link to a 1984-85 Mavic catalog:
http://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/mavic/index.html
Chas.
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Date: 20 Aug 2007 21:41:20
From: still me
Subject: Re: Vintage Mavic Rim Styles
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:27:31 -0700, "* * Chas"
<verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com > wrote:
>
>"still me" <wheeledBob@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>Mavic Monthlery Route rims were 21.5mm wide with a 1.1mm wall thickness
>and have double eyelets for spokes. They're relatively heavy rims at 420g
>and were supplied OEM (Original Equipment Manufactures) on a lot of new
>bikes. They were recommended for training, cyclocross and heavier riders.
Kuel, I'll make them my off road rims.
>Championnat du Monde rims were made up trough the 1970s, maybe later. I've
>seen them with a number of different label variants such as Championnat du
>Monde, Monthlery Championnat du Monde, Championnat du Monde Professionnel
>and so on. I don't know the differences in these variations.
<snip
>
>Here's a link to a 1984-85 Mavic catalog:
>
>http://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/mavic/index.html
Interesting. The labels seem to match these Monthlery rims so I guess
that and the SF luxe hubs with red sides dates them to mid 80's.
I have two sets of Championnat du Monde's. One set has the Championnat
du Monde labels in red with Mavic Monthlery stamped into the rims. The
other set has Championnat du Monde Sur Route on some less common
separate blue labels with no stampings at all. They seem to be the
same specs, but I can't measure weight or wall thickness so I have no
idea of they vary from each other.
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Date: 21 Aug 2007 16:29:26
From: Donald Gillies
Subject: Re: Vintage Mavic Rim Styles
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>I have two sets of Championnat du Monde's. One set has the Championnat
>du Monde labels in red with Mavic Monthlery stamped into the rims. The
>other set has Championnat du Monde Sur Route on some less common
>separate blue labels with no stampings at all. They seem to be the
>same specs, but I can't measure weight or wall thickness so I have no
>idea of they vary from each other.
If you read the mavic 1985 catalogue, it appears that MAVIC used to
offer 4-5 types of rims under the same name. They would all have the
same general design, and vary only in their weight.
Most people I know bought championnat du monde (?) rims for race day
events. If you read the cyclo-pedia article, those rims would be in
the 260-340 gram class of rims, or 350-390.
I highly recommend the excellent article by Gene Portuesi (sp?) from
cyclo-pedia about the 4 basic classes of rims for sale in ~1974.
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA
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Date: 20 Aug 2007 23:58:50
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Vintage Mavic Rim Styles
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"still me" <wheeledBob@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:ag1kc3h5gdaqasd6lghbejs9q3vci3ncv4@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:27:31 -0700, "* * Chas"
> <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"still me" <wheeledBob@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >Mavic Monthlery Route rims were 21.5mm wide with a 1.1mm wall thickness
> >and have double eyelets for spokes. They're relatively heavy rims at
420g
> >and were supplied OEM (Original Equipment Manufactures) on a lot of new
> >bikes. They were recommended for training, cyclocross and heavier
riders.
>
> Kuel, I'll make them my off road rims.
>
> >Championnat du Monde rims were made up trough the 1970s, maybe later.
I've
> >seen them with a number of different label variants such as Championnat
du
> >Monde, Monthlery Championnat du Monde, Championnat du Monde
Professionnel
> >and so on. I don't know the differences in these variations.
> <snip
> >
> >Here's a link to a 1984-85 Mavic catalog:
> >
> >http://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/mavic/index.html
>
>
> Interesting. The labels seem to match these Monthlery rims so I guess
> that and the SF luxe hubs with red sides dates them to mid 80's.
>
> I have two sets of Championnat du Monde's. One set has the Championnat
> du Monde labels in red with Mavic Monthlery stamped into the rims. The
> other set has Championnat du Monde Sur Route on some less common
> separate blue labels with no stampings at all. They seem to be the
> same specs, but I can't measure weight or wall thickness so I have no
> idea of they vary from each other.
>
I'm thinking the Normandy Luxe hubs with the red plastic dust seals were
from the mid to late 1970s.
420g were considered heavy rims in the 1970s compared to ~350g racing rims
and lighter time trial rims in use at the time. My favorites were the 330g
Super Champion Arc en Ciel rims.
Later some of the most popular rims like the Mavic GP4 models weighed in
at ~400g. The pro racing circuit used heavier rims for general purpose
riding with lighter rims used in the mountains and for time trials.
I have an old rear wheel with around a 500g AVA rim. It had a bad hop from
off road riding. I was about to trash it but I released the tension on the
spokes and re-dished it and it came out round again.
Chas.
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Date: 21 Aug 2007 22:20:15
From: still me
Subject: Re: Vintage Mavic Rim Styles
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:58:50 -0700, "* * Chas"
<verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com > wrote:
>I'm thinking the Normandy Luxe hubs with the red plastic dust seals were
>from the mid to late 1970s.
Really? I thought they came along much later than that. But, now that
I look, my '77 motobecane seems to have come with red label HF hubs,
so perhaps you are correct. I forget when SF hubs became popular but
AFAIR it was a year or two after that, as lugs got plainer and boring.
>
<snip >
>I have an old rear wheel with around a 500g AVA rim. It had a bad hop from
>off road riding. I was about to trash it but I released the tension on the
>spokes and re-dished it and it came out round again.
I have a few AVA's too. Most of them are the non eyeletted/washer type
that Raleigh used on the Competition. A real delight to swap, what
with the installing the washers and - even worse - getting them stuck
inside the rim.
I have one mismatched AVA with eyelets, I believe it was switched off
my buddy's Mercier when he went clincher around '73. It has a hop that
I thought was permanent too, but I'll have to check it based on your
success :-)
>Chas.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Date: 19 Aug 2007 22:41:34
From: Donald Gillies
Subject: Re: Vintage Mavic Rim Styles
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still me <wheeledBob@yahoo.com > writes:
>Anyone familiar with vintage Mavic rim styles?
>I noticed that a set of Mavic Monthlery Route rims I have are a couple
>mm wider than the Championnet du Monde. Were the Monthlery's designed
>for touring and the Championnet designed for "racing"? are there any
>significant differences aside from the minor width difference?
Oh i think the difference was like, 100 grams per rim. Did you happen
to pick them up, or were you just lurking on ebay ??
Championnet du Monde is a 280gram or 290 gram rim, like Fiamme Ergal,
if i remember correctly, in the same class as Extra Legere (260 grams)
- superlight racing rim, used only for races. The monthlery is a
390-400 gram everyday rim :
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/weights.htm
http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/cyclo-pedia-74/p26%20rims.gif
http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/BikeWarehouse-80/Larger/BW17.jpg
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA
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Date: 20 Aug 2007 21:20:07
From: still me
Subject: Re: Vintage Mavic Rim Styles
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On 19 Aug 2007 22:41:34 -0700, gillies@cs.ubc.ca (Donald Gillies)
wrote:
>still me <wheeledBob@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>Oh i think the difference was like, 100 grams per rim. Did you happen
>to pick them up, or were you just lurking on ebay ??
I picked up a set laced to some SF normandy luxe hubs. They were a
pull off a bike long ago. Another guy who didn't want tubies and the
wheels got stuck in a basement. They sat too long someplace too moist
so they need polishing, but otherwise they are NOS.
>
>Championnet du Monde is a 280gram or 290 gram rim, like Fiamme Ergal,
>if i remember correctly, in the same class as Extra Legere (260 grams)
>- superlight racing rim, used only for races. The monthlery is a
>390-400 gram everyday rim :
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/weights.htm
> http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/cyclo-pedia-74/p26%20rims.gif
> http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/BikeWarehouse-80/Larger/BW17.jpg
>
Wow, that last catalog has some rocking prices and some stuff I
haven't seen listed in 25 years. I'll have to place an order!
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