| |
Main
Date: 03 Oct 2007 15:57:25
From:
Subject: Which spokes lose tension?
|
What determines the range of spokes that lose tension under the axle
when the wheel is loaded?
I know of only two FEA models, Jobst's and Ian's.
Here's Ian's:
http://www.astounding.org.uk/ian/wheel/index.html
Jobst uses a 50 kg load and a simplified radial wheel, while Ian uses
102 kg (1,000 Newtons) and a cross-3 lacing.
But both models show the same 40-degree arc of 5 of 35 spokes losing
tension, with the middle spoke centered on the contact patch:
//
|
|
| |
Date: 05 Oct 2007 17:58:40
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> What determines the range of spokes that lose tension under the axle
> when the wheel is loaded?
>
> I know of only two FEA models, Jobst's and Ian's.
>
> Here's Ian's:
>
> http://www.astounding.org.uk/ian/wheel/index.html
>
> Jobst uses a 50 kg load and a simplified radial wheel, while Ian uses
> 102 kg (1,000 Newtons) and a cross-3 lacing.
>
> But both models show the same 40-degree arc of 5 of 35 spokes losing
> tension, with the middle spoke centered on the contact patch:
>
> //
|
| | |
Date: 06 Oct 2007 08:51:52
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
jim beam wrote:
> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>> What determines the range of spokes that lose tension under the axle
>> when the wheel is loaded?
[...]
>>
>> Again, I'm just guessing about most of this. It would be nice if there
>> are much simpler answers.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Carl Fogel
>
>
> wow. two whole days and the "engineers" don't have a single damned
> comment that even /vaguely/ addresses these excellent analytical questions!
After a very long and tedious thread month ago about something as simple
as spoke tension vs. deflection (3-point free body), that *eventually*
everyone (save you) managed to finally get, I'm not about to step into
this. A FEA model will answer all these questions, and any more Carl
Fogel is likely to think up.
|
| | | |
Date: 06 Oct 2007 06:52:40
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
Peter Cole wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>> What determines the range of spokes that lose tension under the axle
>>> when the wheel is loaded?
> [...]
>>>
>>> Again, I'm just guessing about most of this. It would be nice if there
>>> are much simpler answers.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Carl Fogel
>>
>>
>> wow. two whole days and the "engineers" don't have a single damned
>> comment that even /vaguely/ addresses these excellent analytical
>> questions!
>
> After a very long and tedious thread month ago about something as simple
> as spoke tension vs. deflection (3-point free body), that *eventually*
> everyone (save you) managed to finally get, I'm not about to step into
> this. A FEA model will answer all these questions, and any more Carl
> Fogel is likely to think up.
so shine your brilliant "engineering" light on us poor bastards that are
too dumb to do it for ourselves! give us the "for dummies" summary!
|
| | | | |
Date: 06 Oct 2007 12:46:22
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
jim beam wrote:
> Peter Cole wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>>> What determines the range of spokes that lose tension under the axle
>>>> when the wheel is loaded?
>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> Again, I'm just guessing about most of this. It would be nice if there
>>>> are much simpler answers.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Carl Fogel
>>>
>>>
>>> wow. two whole days and the "engineers" don't have a single damned
>>> comment that even /vaguely/ addresses these excellent analytical
>>> questions!
>>
>> After a very long and tedious thread month ago about something as
>> simple as spoke tension vs. deflection (3-point free body), that
>> *eventually* everyone (save you) managed to finally get, I'm not about
>> to step into this. A FEA model will answer all these questions, and
>> any more Carl Fogel is likely to think up.
>
> so shine your brilliant "engineering" light on us poor bastards that are
> too dumb to do it for ourselves! give us the "for dummies" summary!
Not "us", just "you", apparently.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 07 Oct 2007 22:29:17
From: Jambo
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
"Peter Cole" <peter_cole@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:XZmdnd1i3dZCJpranZ2dnUVZ_qTinZ2d@comcast.com...
> jim beam wrote:
>> so shine your brilliant "engineering" light on us poor bastards that are
>> too dumb to do it for ourselves! give us the "for dummies" summary!
>
> Not "us", just "you", apparently.
Not "apparently".
|
| | | | | |
Date: 06 Oct 2007 09:58:44
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
Peter Cole wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> Peter Cole wrote:
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>>>> What determines the range of spokes that lose tension under the axle
>>>>> when the wheel is loaded?
>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, I'm just guessing about most of this. It would be nice if there
>>>>> are much simpler answers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Carl Fogel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> wow. two whole days and the "engineers" don't have a single damned
>>>> comment that even /vaguely/ addresses these excellent analytical
>>>> questions!
>>>
>>> After a very long and tedious thread month ago about something as
>>> simple as spoke tension vs. deflection (3-point free body), that
>>> *eventually* everyone (save you) managed to finally get, I'm not
>>> about to step into this. A FEA model will answer all these questions,
>>> and any more Carl Fogel is likely to think up.
>>
>> so shine your brilliant "engineering" light on us poor bastards that
>> are too dumb to do it for ourselves! give us the "for dummies" summary!
>
> Not "us", just "you", apparently.
avoidance from peter cole? shirley shome mishtake!
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 07 Oct 2007 22:30:04
From: Jambo
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote in message
news:yuudnUxtI8NYI5ranZ2dnUVZ_tvinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>
> avoidance from peter cole? shirley shome mishtake!
Whatsa matter beamboy, got turned down by your favorite hooker this weekend?
DLFF.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 07 Oct 2007 21:40:07
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
Jambo wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:yuudnUxtI8NYI5ranZ2dnUVZ_tvinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>> avoidance from peter cole? shirley shome mishtake!
>
> Whatsa matter beamboy, got turned down by your favorite hooker this weekend?
>
> DLFF.
>
>
how old are you? moron.
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Oct 2007 23:36:32
From: Jambo
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote in message
news:t7-dndenfYc6KZTanZ2dnUVZ_oPinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> Jambo wrote:
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:yuudnUxtI8NYI5ranZ2dnUVZ_tvinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>> avoidance from peter cole? shirley shome mishtake!
>>
>> Whatsa matter beamboy, got turned down by your favorite hooker this
>> weekend?
>>
>> DLFF.
> how old are you? moron.
Did you get turned down by your favorite hooker?
Idiot.
|
| | |
Date: 05 Oct 2007 23:22:56
From: Jambo
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote in message
news:d9idnccf5_1cQJvanZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> wow. two whole days and the "engineers" don't have a single damned
> comment that even /vaguely/ addresses these excellent analytical
> questions!
Wow. beamboy bleats words without contributing anything at all... waiting
to ride on someone's back again?
|
| | | |
Date: 06 Oct 2007 06:00:20
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
Jambo wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:d9idnccf5_1cQJvanZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>> wow. two whole days and the "engineers" don't have a single damned
>> comment that even /vaguely/ addresses these excellent analytical
>> questions!
>
> Wow. beamboy bleats words without contributing anything at all... waiting
> to ride on someone's back again?
>
>
well, ed, i'd ride your contribution if you made one! really, you're
completely free to do so!
but you're withholding your sublime genius just to help us not be
dazzled. aren't you. moron.
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Oct 2007 22:28:41
From: Jambo
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote in message
news:na2dnXZEY4t5G5ranZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> Jambo wrote:
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:d9idnccf5_1cQJvanZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>> wow. two whole days and the "engineers" don't have a single damned
>>> comment that even /vaguely/ addresses these excellent analytical
>>> questions!
>>
>> Wow. beamboy bleats words without contributing anything at all...
>> waiting to ride on someone's back again?
> well, ed, i'd ride your contribution if you made one! really, you're
> completely free to do so!
Sure, just read back on the CFRP threads, and all the refutations of your
dumbass assertions on CF frames talking to people before they break, and
singing to embedded microphones, and your "sikorski" story, and your
"specific modulus = Young's modulus", and NDI/NDT, and....
> but you're withholding your sublime genius just to help us not be dazzled.
> aren't you. moron.
Well, I can't help it if you're either selectively blind or a real dumbass.
But then again, having been proven a liar and a fraud, what else can you do
but claw at everything to try to "save face"?
Dumbass lying fraud fucktard. (DLFF).
|
| | | | | |
Date: 07 Oct 2007 21:43:24
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
Jambo wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:na2dnXZEY4t5G5ranZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>> Jambo wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:d9idnccf5_1cQJvanZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>>> wow. two whole days and the "engineers" don't have a single damned
>>>> comment that even /vaguely/ addresses these excellent analytical
>>>> questions!
>>> Wow. beamboy bleats words without contributing anything at all...
>>> waiting to ride on someone's back again?
>> well, ed, i'd ride your contribution if you made one! really, you're
>> completely free to do so!
>
> Sure, just read back on the CFRP threads, and all the refutations of your
> dumbass assertions on CF frames talking to people before they break, and
> singing to embedded microphones, and your "sikorski" story, and your
> "specific modulus = Young's modulus", and NDI/NDT, and....
hey, moron, do you think that repeating bullshit somehow makes it not
bullshit? you need to take your meds.
>
>> but you're withholding your sublime genius just to help us not be dazzled.
>> aren't you. moron.
>
> Well, I can't help it if you're either selectively blind or a real dumbass.
> But then again, having been proven a liar and a fraud, what else can you do
> but claw at everything to try to "save face"?
>
> Dumbass lying fraud fucktard. (DLFF).
>
>
see above.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 16 Oct 2007 23:37:05
From: Jambo
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote in message
news:7_GdneGtCNTwKJTanZ2dnUVZ_tGonZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> Jambo wrote:
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:na2dnXZEY4t5G5ranZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>> Jambo wrote:
>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:d9idnccf5_1cQJvanZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>>>> wow. two whole days and the "engineers" don't have a single damned
>>>>> comment that even /vaguely/ addresses these excellent analytical
>>>>> questions!
>>>> Wow. beamboy bleats words without contributing anything at all...
>>>> waiting to ride on someone's back again?
>>> well, ed, i'd ride your contribution if you made one! really, you're
>>> completely free to do so!
>>
>> Sure, just read back on the CFRP threads, and all the refutations of your
>> dumbass assertions on CF frames talking to people before they break, and
>> singing to embedded microphones, and your "sikorski" story, and your
>> "specific modulus = Young's modulus", and NDI/NDT, and....
>
> hey, moron, do you think that repeating bullshit somehow makes it not
> bullshit? you need to take your meds.
Sure, just read back on the CFRP threads, and all the refutations of your
dumbass assertions on CF frames talking to people before they break, and
singing to embedded microphones, and your "sikorski" story, and your
"specific modulus = Young's modulus", and NDI/NDT, and....
|
| |
Date: 05 Oct 2007 08:55:08
From: Ron Ruff
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
On Oct 4, 12:45 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net > wrote:
> In these kinds of tedious model building chores I always
> write a program that creates the model. Use any language
> that suits you: Perl, Python, shell script, C, awk, Fortran,
> ... (but not Excel) It is always worth the effort.
Great idea! If only I knew one of those "foreign" languages...
learning them can be quite tedious as well...
|
| | |
Date: 05 Oct 2007 19:36:58
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
In article
<1191599708.404834.172140@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >,
Ron Ruff <rruffrruff@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Oct 4, 12:45 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > In these kinds of tedious model building chores I always
> > write a program that creates the model. Use any language
> > that suits you: Perl, Python, shell script, C, awk, Fortran,
> > ... (but not Excel) It is always worth the effort.
>
> Great idea! If only I knew one of those "foreign" languages...
> learning them can be quite tedious as well...
Oh. I mistakenly assumed we were talking about
programming. Nevermind.
--
Michael Press
|
| |
Date: 04 Oct 2007 11:38:40
From: steve
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
On Oct 3, 5:57 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
> What determines the range of spokes that lose tension under the axle
> when the wheel is loaded?
>
> I know of only two FEA models, Jobst's and Ian's.
>
> Here's Ian's:
>
> http://www.astounding.org.uk/ian/wheel/index.html
>
> Jobst uses a 50 kg load and a simplified radial wheel, while Ian uses
> 102 kg (1,000 Newtons) and a cross-3 lacing.
>
> But both models show the same 40-degree arc of 5 of 35 spokes losing
> tension, with the middle spoke centered on the contact patch:
>
> //
|
| |
Date: 04 Oct 2007 08:04:27
From: Ron Ruff
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
On Oct 3, 6:28 pm, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net > wrote:
> You need to get your own, obviously.
I second that.
I built some models earlier this year but modeled deflections were
lower than testing by ~30% and I couldn't figure out why... so I lost
interest. It is possible that I needed to have separate nodes in the
rim for where the spoke attaches and the CG (I was modeling a 30mm
rim), instead of just having a single row of nodes around the rim...
that was the next thing I wanted to try anyway. Building models is a
very tedious job. I used the "Lisa" free program, which eventually
seemed to work well enough. I figured out the input format, then used
excel to build the input files.
|
| | |
Date: 04 Oct 2007 11:45:49
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
In article
<1191510267.140680.217240@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >,
Ron Ruff <rruffrruff@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Oct 3, 6:28 pm, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > You need to get your own, obviously.
>
> I second that.
>
> I built some models earlier this year but modeled deflections were
> lower than testing by ~30% and I couldn't figure out why... so I lost
> interest. It is possible that I needed to have separate nodes in the
> rim for where the spoke attaches and the CG (I was modeling a 30mm
> rim), instead of just having a single row of nodes around the rim...
> that was the next thing I wanted to try anyway. Building models is a
> very tedious job. I used the "Lisa" free program, which eventually
> seemed to work well enough. I figured out the input format, then used
> excel to build the input files.
In these kinds of tedious model building chores I always
write a program that creates the model. Use any language
that suits you: Perl, Python, shell script, C, awk, Fortran,
... (but not Excel) It is always worth the effort.
--
Michael Press
|
| |
Date: 03 Oct 2007 20:28:53
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Which spokes lose tension?
|
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> What determines the range of spokes that lose tension under the axle
> when the wheel is loaded?
>
> I know of only two FEA models, Jobst's and Ian's.
You need to get your own, obviously.
|
|
