Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

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Date: 06 Oct 2007 20:33:29
From: Rob
Subject: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

HI All,

I am in my second month of a new job in Portland Oregon. Commuting
miles are ~150/week, throw in 15-20 more for errands.

My gore-tex riding jacket was stolen from a coffee shop a while ago
and I need to purchase something for the rainy season. First thought
was a stretch wind-blocker fleece jacket (Castelli Espresso) with
light weight synthetic undie top, but should I consider:

wool base layer
wool trainer (the Woolistic offerings at Vintage Velos seem
particularly nice).
lightweight shell

Many fall and winter days in this part of Oregon include rain; but not
always a steady or heavy rain. We do tend to have a handful or two of
really miserable (mid-upper 30's and raining hard) days. The commute
is ~1 hour each way and fairly hilly. I usually stay fairly warm and
sweat a fair bit. Hiking jacket or other outdoor clothing could be
pressed into service if need be.

What do you think? Wool or no wool?

Your advice would be much appreciated.

Best Regards,

Rob
Portland, OR
USA

Date: 17 Oct 2007 02:43:34
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Holy grail of wet grip

patagonia's paper catogue shows four pages of wool

Date: 17 Oct 2007 20:09:36
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Holy grail of wet grip

datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
>
> patagonia's paper catogue shows four pages of wool
>

Baaaaaah!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

Date: 19 Oct 2007 15:03:58
From: still me
Subject: Re: Holy grail of wet grip

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:09:36 -0500, Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:

>datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
>>
>> patagonia's paper catogue shows four pages of wool
>>
>
>Baaaaaah!

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/10/no_sheep_for_you.php

Date: 17 Oct 2007 00:44:39
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Holy grail of wet grip

- elinimate text -

Check out patagonia's 3 layer bearthable coated nylon
http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/product/collection.jsp?OPTION=COLLECTIONS_DISPLAY_HANDLER&catcode=MAIN_FA07_US.CLOTHING_GEAR.MENS.PANTS.SOFT_SHELL

http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/product/collection.jsp?OPTION=COLLECTIONS_DISPLAY_HANDLER&catcode=MAIN_FA07_US.CLOTHING_GEAR.MENS.JACKETS.SOFT_SHELL
http://www.kokatat.com/products.asp

Date: 17 Oct 2007 20:08:55
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Holy grail of wet grip

datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
> - elinimate text -
>
>
> Check out patagonia's 3 layer bearthable coated nylon...

I wish I lived in Patagonia - few people, lots of penguins.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

Date: 16 Oct 2007 21:46:20
From:
Subject: Re: Holy grail of wet grip

On Oct 13, 10:41 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> http://news.yahoo.com/comics/bc;_ylt=Aplw3gDSBlXRWPqkuFzBIBel58IF

meaning that the owner of the tomb did not bother to swap the tires
that came with the bike
for the ones with the wet grip?

Date: 16 Oct 2007 04:35:08
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

http://www.wunderground.com/US/OR/Portland.html

baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Date: 15 Oct 2007 19:02:51
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

On Oct 8, 8:56 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> > -tom
>
> a flock of sheep numbering 162 enturd the front door, flocked thru to
> the kitchen and left thru the rear door.
> the jacket was lost during the ensuing maylay

I see a lot of sheep going in & out of $tarbuck$, so maybe you're
right!

Date: 15 Oct 2007 18:22:14
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

On Oct 15, 1:03 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com > wrote:
> "Mark" <remove.mandmlj.t...@remove.comcast.this.net> wrote in message
>
> news:rKWdnYPnFJfoxZXanZ2dnUVZ_s2tnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Rob wrote:
> > > HI All,
>
> > > I am in my second month of a new job in Portland Oregon. Commuting
> > > miles are ~150/week, throw in 15-20 more for errands.
>
> > > My gore-tex riding jacket was stolen from a coffee shop a while ago
> > > and I need to purchase something for the rainy season. First thought
> > > was a stretch wind-blocker fleece jacket (Castelli Espresso) with
> > > light weight synthetic undie top, but should I consider:
>
> > > wool base layer
> > > wool trainer (the Woolistic offerings at Vintage Velos seem
> > > particularly nice).
> > > lightweight shell
>
> > > Many fall and winter days in this part of Oregon include rain; but not
> > > always a steady or heavy rain. We do tend to have a handful or two of
> > > really miserable (mid-upper 30's and raining hard) days. The commute
> > > is ~1 hour each way and fairly hilly. I usually stay fairly warm and
> > > sweat a fair bit. Hiking jacket or other outdoor clothing could be
> > > pressed into service if need be.
>
> > > What do you think? Wool or no wool?
>
> > Wool is very nice when dry, and insulates when wet, but in my limited
> > experience, it absorbs a LOT of water. Contrast fleece, which also
> > insulates when wet, but most of the water wicks downward and out. It's
> > astonishing how little water fleece retains.
>
> > I sweat a LOT, and so I've tended to avoid wool for rain rides (great
> > for other rides if I won't be sweating too much, but once I put on a
> > windproof shell, I'm soggy inside and out). Clearly YMMV.
>
> > Heavy wool socks work well for me in rain, but I don't think my feet
> > sweat that much compared to the rest of me. Also, wool is "stiff"
> > enough that the socks retain some insulating thickness even with the
> > pressure under my soles. I think fleece would be a poor choice /there/.
>
> > Granted, I have limited experience with wool garments in the rain
> > (except socks). Wool is the fabric of choice for the retro crowd, so
> > listen to other opinions too.
>
> > Mark (Salem, OR) J.
>
> I ride with wool jerseys a lot. It's great in a lot of ways but wet wool
> stinks. Something to be aware of if working in a social setting.

I rode wool in Oregon this weekend. It was in the high 60s and sunny,
and I was wildly over-dressed but I did not get too hot. I love my
old orange Kucharick jersey from 20+ years ago -- makes me look like
the Great Pumpkin. One thing wool does have going for it is that when
you do over-dress and sweat, it does not have the same slightly wet
skin feel as some poly (hard to explain), but the poly dries by
evaporation faster. Wool does smell like a dog when wet, and poly
smells like a gym when used. Take your pick.-- Jay Beattie.

Date: 13 Oct 2007 15:41:34
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Holy grail of wet grip

http://news.yahoo.com/comics/bc;_ylt=Aplw3gDSBlXRWPqkuFzBIBel58IF

Date: 11 Oct 2007 22:58:27
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Holy grail of wet grip

Has the euro bike rider magazine tested commuter or mitty tires in the
wet?
I wonder if Schwalbe addressed wet riding with the new commuter
series?
The Conti TT is very stable and grippy.

Date: 11 Oct 2007 12:08:47
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Holy grail of wet grip

On Oct 11, 10:05 am, snd...@gmail.com wrote:
> Jay Beattie wrote:
> > of grip. I have yet to find the Holy Grail of high-grip tires (I do
> > like some of the Michelins), but I do know that some of the new
> > commuter tires (like my current rear, the Bontragger "Hard Case") are
> > way too hard and slippery. Pick the wrong tire, and you will find
> > yourself surfing out of the West Hills. And (5) get some KoolStop
>
> Michelin Pro2 Race seem to grip well on wet. I blew a sizable hole
> in Specialized S-Works the other day and on the second Pro2 Race
> went in the back:
> i tested them yesterday in a rain, cornering over a tram crossing at
> least
> one of the wheels slipped on steed (felt like a foot but was probably
> just a few inches)
> but as soon as the tire rolled off the steel they regained the
> tenacious grip in
> an instant: no crash.
>
> a very comforting tire (as was the Specialized S-Works it had replaced)

That's my favorite tire, but I am going with something wider on my
commuter bike. By the way, before the dollar sank, ProBikeKit had
some killer deals on Pro2Race -- $28. -- Jay Beattie.

Date: 11 Oct 2007 16:45:28
From: John Verheul
Subject: Re: Holy grail of wet grip

>> Jay Beattie wrote:
>> > of grip. I have yet to find the Holy Grail of high-grip tires (I do
>> > like some of the Michelins),

Panaracer Stradius Pro.

Date: 11 Oct 2007 17:05:33
From:
Subject: Holy grail of wet grip

Jay Beattie wrote:

> of grip. I have yet to find the Holy Grail of high-grip tires (I do
> like some of the Michelins), but I do know that some of the new
> commuter tires (like my current rear, the Bontragger "Hard Case") are
> way too hard and slippery. Pick the wrong tire, and you will find
> yourself surfing out of the West Hills. And (5) get some KoolStop

Michelin Pro2 Race seem to grip well on wet. I blew a sizable hole
in Specialized S-Works the other day and on the second Pro2 Race
went in the back:
i tested them yesterday in a rain, cornering over a tram crossing at
least
one of the wheels slipped on steed (felt like a foot but was probably
just a few inches)
but as soon as the tire rolled off the steel they regained the
tenacious grip in
an instant: no crash.

a very comforting tire (as was the Specialized S-Works it had replaced)

Date: 19 Oct 2007 15:28:26
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Holy grail of wet grip

you'd believe a spray on compound for wet grip exists.
why? well, everything has a spray on ...
sum new auto tires ahve new tire grip soon lost.
in there is a spray on
but no significant market
only a potential spin-off from germ warfare, dirty bombs, new coal
plants...

Date: 10 Oct 2007 21:14:13
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

On Oct 10, 1:22 pm, Jay Beattie <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com > wrote:
> On Oct 10, 1:10 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
> > <1191951712.948342.36...@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Oct 8, 8:57 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Tim McNamara wrote:
>
> > > > > Have you actually used wool?
>
> > > > I certainly have.
>
> > > > > One of the things it does better than any
> > > > > synthetics I have tried is stay warm when wet. Another is that it
> > > > > stinks less from sweat than any synthetic I have tried. A third is that
> > > > > wool has a broader comfortable temperature range than any synthetic I
> > > > > have tried.
>
> > > > I used wool back when, and am not looking forward to it again. It may
> > > > have a broad range of comfortable temperatures, but that would not
> > > > include summer temperatures. Believe me. I wore wool jerseys, and
> > > > shorts, in central California summers, and do not wish to relive that
> > > > experience. synthetics are better in warm temperatures, and can be
> > > > washed more vigorously than wool without damage. So, I don't share your
> > > > belief that they stink less. I just toss cycling clothes in with
> > > > everything else now, no need for special care to keep them from shrinkage.
>
> > > > Staying warm when wet? The wicking synthetics are much better than wool
> > > > at that, and don't itch.
>
> > > > >> base layer, insulating layer (varioust types and weights as needed),
> > > > >> shell with good breathing and some water repelency, everything having
> > > > >> ample zippers.
>
> > > > That works for me, but none of the layers particularly benefits from
> > > > being wool any more. Synthetics have come a long way.
>
> > > As have quality wool garments.
>
> > > A high quality, very fine merino wool feels much better on the skin
> > > than any synthetic IMO. To me, the difference feels/smells to be: a
> > > softer touch, less sensitive to temperature fluctuations, less
> > > clinging to the skin, better breathing, and less odorous when you need
> > > to use it again without a washing.
>
> > > The quality wools I have used (Ibex, Icebreaker, WoolyWarm) seem
> > > wholly different than those I experimented with in my hiking/hunting
> > > garb 10 years ago. The heavy, overweight fabric, wet dog smell, and
> > > the itch are no longer attributes to some of the products available
> > > now.
>
> > I was not going to join the fun, but you talked me into it.
> > I wear an Ibex merino wool jersey in a wide temperature
> > range. It has all the good qualities you list. Underneath
> > I wear a thin silk jersey. Even on cold descents, this
> > is typically sufficient.
>
> What do you consider a cold descent? I would die of hypothermia
> wearing only a wool jersey and a silk tee-shirt riding in the winter
> around here and doing any of the longer descents. A wool jersey with a
> silk tee-shirt is early fall, late spring dry day garb. In winter and
> early spring, the long descents around here put you above snow line
> (like on Larch Mountain -- a 14 mile climb) and often in rain and
> descending at high speeds. I wore wool for decades (and still do),
> and it is not nearly magical enough to keep me anywhere near warm
> enough descending the climbs around here after November or before
> March -- and certainly not when it is raining. Ya need a jacket for
> wind and water during the winter. I think jacket design and
> construction is way, way more important that whether you have a wool
> or poly jersey/base layer during the winter in Oregon. The choice
> between those two really comes down to drying times and personal
> preferences, e.g., skin feel, smell, etc. -- Jay Beattie.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

discovering wind chill diferentials between upwinfd and downwinfd, or
uphill and downhill is a BIG surprise when first riding in the cool
zone - especially if you get caught out. What's hot downwinfd is
freaking butt freeezing upwind.
the big deal with a cheap breatheable (or Gore W/P/B's on the $200+)
coated nylon wind breaker is the wicking poly's ability to distribute
your moisture 'evenly' thru the it, the base layer thus encouraging
(do your own thinking here thanks DYOTHT) the moisture's volume/
pressure escape thru the breathable jacket fabric.
Wool doesn't, does it?
Baaaaaaaa
don't get me wrong, I like wool baaa baaa but it's snot poly.

Date: 11 Oct 2007 05:06:12
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

In article
<1192050853.406662.193650@v3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >,
datakoll <datakoll@yahoo.com > wrote:

> On Oct 10, 1:22 pm, Jay Beattie <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 10, 1:10 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > In article
> > > <1191951712.948342.36...@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > > John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Oct 8, 8:57 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Tim McNamara wrote:
> >
> > > > > > Have you actually used wool?
> >
> > > > > I certainly have.
> >
> > > > > > One of the things it does better than any
> > > > > > synthetics I have tried is stay warm when wet. Another is that it
> > > > > > stinks less from sweat than any synthetic I have tried. A third is that
> > > > > > wool has a broader comfortable temperature range than any synthetic I
> > > > > > have tried.
> >
> > > > > I used wool back when, and am not looking forward to it again. It may
> > > > > have a broad range of comfortable temperatures, but that would not
> > > > > include summer temperatures. Believe me. I wore wool jerseys, and
> > > > > shorts, in central California summers, and do not wish to relive that
> > > > > experience. synthetics are better in warm temperatures, and can be
> > > > > washed more vigorously than wool without damage. So, I don't share your
> > > > > belief that they stink less. I just toss cycling clothes in with
> > > > > everything else now, no need for special care to keep them from shrinkage.
> >
> > > > > Staying warm when wet? The wicking synthetics are much better than wool
> > > > > at that, and don't itch.
> >
> > > > > >> base layer, insulating layer (varioust types and weights as needed),
> > > > > >> shell with good breathing and some water repelency, everything having
> > > > > >> ample zippers.
> >
> > > > > That works for me, but none of the layers particularly benefits from
> > > > > being wool any more. Synthetics have come a long way.
> >
> > > > As have quality wool garments.
> >
> > > > A high quality, very fine merino wool feels much better on the skin
> > > > than any synthetic IMO. To me, the difference feels/smells to be: a
> > > > softer touch, less sensitive to temperature fluctuations, less
> > > > clinging to the skin, better breathing, and less odorous when you need
> > > > to use it again without a washing.
> >
> > > > The quality wools I have used (Ibex, Icebreaker, WoolyWarm) seem
> > > > wholly different than those I experimented with in my hiking/hunting
> > > > garb 10 years ago. The heavy, overweight fabric, wet dog smell, and
> > > > the itch are no longer attributes to some of the products available
> > > > now.
> >
> > > I was not going to join the fun, but you talked me into it.
> > > I wear an Ibex merino wool jersey in a wide temperature
> > > range. It has all the good qualities you list. Underneath
> > > I wear a thin silk jersey. Even on cold descents, this
> > > is typically sufficient.
> >
> > What do you consider a cold descent? I would die of hypothermia
> > wearing only a wool jersey and a silk tee-shirt riding in the winter
> > around here and doing any of the longer descents. A wool jersey with a
> > silk tee-shirt is early fall, late spring dry day garb. In winter and
> > early spring, the long descents around here put you above snow line
> > (like on Larch Mountain -- a 14 mile climb) and often in rain and
> > descending at high speeds. I wore wool for decades (and still do),
> > and it is not nearly magical enough to keep me anywhere near warm
> > enough descending the climbs around here after November or before
> > March -- and certainly not when it is raining. Ya need a jacket for
> > wind and water during the winter. I think jacket design and
> > construction is way, way more important that whether you have a wool
> > or poly jersey/base layer during the winter in Oregon. The choice
> > between those two really comes down to drying times and personal
> > preferences, e.g., skin feel, smell, etc. -- Jay Beattie.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> discovering wind chill diferentials between upwinfd and downwinfd, or
> uphill and downhill is a BIG surprise when first riding in the cool
> zone - especially if you get caught out. What's hot downwinfd is
> freaking butt freeezing upwind.
> the big deal with a cheap breatheable (or Gore W/P/B's on the $200+)
> coated nylon wind breaker is the wicking poly's ability to distribute
> your moisture 'evenly' thru the it, the base layer thus encouraging
> (do your own thinking here thanks DYOTHT) the moisture's volume/
> pressure escape thru the breathable jacket fabric.
> Wool doesn't, does it?
> Baaaaaaaa
> don't get me wrong, I like wool baaa baaa but it's snot poly.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That should be "it snot poly."

--
Michael Press

Date: 10 Oct 2007 10:22:20
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

On Oct 10, 1:10 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net > wrote:
> In article
> <1191951712.948342.36...@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 8, 8:57 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
> > wrote:
> > > Tim McNamara wrote:
>
> > > > Have you actually used wool?
>
> > > I certainly have.
>
> > > > One of the things it does better than any
> > > > synthetics I have tried is stay warm when wet. Another is that it
> > > > stinks less from sweat than any synthetic I have tried. A third is that
> > > > wool has a broader comfortable temperature range than any synthetic I
> > > > have tried.
>
> > > I used wool back when, and am not looking forward to it again. It may
> > > have a broad range of comfortable temperatures, but that would not
> > > include summer temperatures. Believe me. I wore wool jerseys, and
> > > shorts, in central California summers, and do not wish to relive that
> > > experience. synthetics are better in warm temperatures, and can be
> > > washed more vigorously than wool without damage. So, I don't share your
> > > belief that they stink less. I just toss cycling clothes in with
> > > everything else now, no need for special care to keep them from shrinkage.
>
> > > Staying warm when wet? The wicking synthetics are much better than wool
> > > at that, and don't itch.
>
> > > >> base layer, insulating layer (varioust types and weights as needed),
> > > >> shell with good breathing and some water repelency, everything having
> > > >> ample zippers.
>
> > > That works for me, but none of the layers particularly benefits from
> > > being wool any more. Synthetics have come a long way.
>
> > As have quality wool garments.
>
> > A high quality, very fine merino wool feels much better on the skin
> > than any synthetic IMO. To me, the difference feels/smells to be: a
> > softer touch, less sensitive to temperature fluctuations, less
> > clinging to the skin, better breathing, and less odorous when you need
> > to use it again without a washing.
>
> > The quality wools I have used (Ibex, Icebreaker, WoolyWarm) seem
> > wholly different than those I experimented with in my hiking/hunting
> > garb 10 years ago. The heavy, overweight fabric, wet dog smell, and
> > the itch are no longer attributes to some of the products available
> > now.
>
> I was not going to join the fun, but you talked me into it.
> I wear an Ibex merino wool jersey in a wide temperature
> range. It has all the good qualities you list. Underneath
> I wear a thin silk jersey. Even on cold descents, this
> is typically sufficient.

What do you consider a cold descent? I would die of hypothermia
wearing only a wool jersey and a silk tee-shirt riding in the winter
around here and doing any of the longer descents. A wool jersey with a
silk tee-shirt is early fall, late spring dry day garb. In winter and
early spring, the long descents around here put you above snow line
(like on Larch Mountain -- a 14 mile climb) and often in rain and
descending at high speeds. I wore wool for decades (and still do),
and it is not nearly magical enough to keep me anywhere near warm
enough descending the climbs around here after November or before
March -- and certainly not when it is raining. Ya need a jacket for
wind and water during the winter. I think jacket design and
construction is way, way more important that whether you have a wool
or poly jersey/base layer during the winter in Oregon. The choice
between those two really comes down to drying times and personal
preferences, e.g., skin feel, smell, etc. -- Jay Beattie.

Date: 10 Oct 2007 19:29:23
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

In article
<1192036940.050942.64550@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com >,
Jay Beattie <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com > wrote:

> On Oct 10, 1:10 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > In article
> > <1191951712.948342.36...@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Oct 8, 8:57 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Tim McNamara wrote:
> >
> > > > > Have you actually used wool?
> >
> > > > I certainly have.
> >
> > > > > One of the things it does better than any
> > > > > synthetics I have tried is stay warm when wet. Another is that it
> > > > > stinks less from sweat than any synthetic I have tried. A third is that
> > > > > wool has a broader comfortable temperature range than any synthetic I
> > > > > have tried.
> >
> > > > I used wool back when, and am not looking forward to it again. It may
> > > > have a broad range of comfortable temperatures, but that would not
> > > > include summer temperatures. Believe me. I wore wool jerseys, and
> > > > shorts, in central California summers, and do not wish to relive that
> > > > experience. synthetics are better in warm temperatures, and can be
> > > > washed more vigorously than wool without damage. So, I don't share your
> > > > belief that they stink less. I just toss cycling clothes in with
> > > > everything else now, no need for special care to keep them from shrinkage.
> >
> > > > Staying warm when wet? The wicking synthetics are much better than wool
> > > > at that, and don't itch.
> >
> > > > >> base layer, insulating layer (varioust types and weights as needed),
> > > > >> shell with good breathing and some water repelency, everything having
> > > > >> ample zippers.
> >
> > > > That works for me, but none of the layers particularly benefits from
> > > > being wool any more. Synthetics have come a long way.
> >
> > > As have quality wool garments.
> >
> > > A high quality, very fine merino wool feels much better on the skin
> > > than any synthetic IMO. To me, the difference feels/smells to be: a
> > > softer touch, less sensitive to temperature fluctuations, less
> > > clinging to the skin, better breathing, and less odorous when you need
> > > to use it again without a washing.
> >
> > > The quality wools I have used (Ibex, Icebreaker, WoolyWarm) seem
> > > wholly different than those I experimented with in my hiking/hunting
> > > garb 10 years ago. The heavy, overweight fabric, wet dog smell, and
> > > the itch are no longer attributes to some of the products available
> > > now.
> >
> > I was not going to join the fun, but you talked me into it.
> > I wear an Ibex merino wool jersey in a wide temperature
> > range. It has all the good qualities you list. Underneath
> > I wear a thin silk jersey. Even on cold descents, this
> > is typically sufficient.
>
> What do you consider a cold descent? I would die of hypothermia
> wearing only a wool jersey and a silk tee-shirt riding in the winter
> around here and doing any of the longer descents. A wool jersey with a
> silk tee-shirt is early fall, late spring dry day garb. In winter and
> early spring, the long descents around here put you above snow line
> (like on Larch Mountain -- a 14 mile climb) and often in rain and
> descending at high speeds. I wore wool for decades (and still do),
> and it is not nearly magical enough to keep me anywhere near warm
> enough descending the climbs around here after November or before
> March -- and certainly not when it is raining. Ya need a jacket for
> wind and water during the winter. I think jacket design and
> construction is way, way more important that whether you have a wool
> or poly jersey/base layer during the winter in Oregon. The choice
> between those two really comes down to drying times and personal
> preferences, e.g., skin feel, smell, etc. -- Jay Beattie.

I carry a good wind breaker.

I also own a superb (non-cycling) nylon and exploded
polyester coat. It is unbelievably light for its
insulation capacity. That it is light means that it
does not need to be warmed up when donned. It feels
utterly luxurious, and as it is not down it is cut to
have a shape. (Who wants to look like the Michelin man
in a down jacket?) Synthesized polymer weather gear is
excellent these days.

--
Michael Press

Date: 09 Oct 2007 18:44:17
From: John
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

Date: 09 Oct 2007 23:47:35
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

On Oct 9, 4:39 pm, m...@privacy.net wrote:
> >A high quality, very fine merino wool feels much better on the skin
> >than any synthetic IMO.
>
> But can they be worn in hot and humid weather?

On Kevlar, on Gore-tex, on polypropylene, on polyolefine...

The following socks carry Gore-tex embolisms

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=28542529&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1

came in the mail today. Polyole is spreading.
Also found a pair of hi acrylic content, first since the factory
burned: thin heaters but its 85 and I'm usually barefoot not riding.

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=939500&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1

Plan to sewup several Gore socks as:

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=33958569&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1

Seattle fabrics has pattern for Polartex socks possibley adaptable or
wing it from campmor's photo
Right. I have a wool sock collection but for DRY cool temps. I guess
wool socks have more life in them with the new boot's Gore liners,
Gore fabrics tying together fuzzy sued slathered with beeswax.
Poly shirts and poly is under $10 at campmor is 100% cooler than
cotton which is a really big deal at 80-110 dogrees then when wet in
the 3 PM Special thunderstorm, the poly stays warm while you cool off.
It is truly a joy wearing the new fabrics.

Groove on boot

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?memberId=12500226&productId=39335622

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39177556&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1

Date: 09 Oct 2007 12:15:59
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

On Oct 9, 10:41 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Oct 8, 8:57 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Tim McNamara wrote:
>
> > > Have you actually used wool?
>
> > I certainly have.
>
> > > One of the things it does better than any
> > > synthetics I have tried is stay warm when wet. Another is that it
> > > stinks less from sweat than any synthetic I have tried. A third is that
> > > wool has a broader comfortable temperature range than any synthetic I
> > > have tried.
>
> > I used wool back when, and am not looking forward to it again. It may
> > have a broad range of comfortable temperatures, but that would not
> > include summer temperatures. Believe me. I wore wool jerseys, and
> > shorts, in central California summers, and do not wish to relive that
> > experience. synthetics are better in warm temperatures, and can be
> > washed more vigorously than wool without damage. So, I don't share your
> > belief that they stink less. I just toss cycling clothes in with
> > everything else now, no need for special care to keep them from shrinkage.
>
> > Staying warm when wet? The wicking synthetics are much better than wool
> > at that, and don't itch.
>
> > >> base layer, insulating layer (varioust types and weights as needed),
> > >> shell with good breathing and some water repelency, everything having
> > >> ample zippers.
>
> > That works for me, but none of the layers particularly benefits from
> > being wool any more. Synthetics have come a long way.
>
> As have quality wool garments.
>
> A high quality, very fine merino wool feels much better on the skin
> than any synthetic IMO. To me, the difference feels/smells to be: a
> softer touch, less sensitive to temperature fluctuations, less
> clinging to the skin, better breathing, and less odorous when you need
> to use it again without a washing.
>
> The quality wools I have used (Ibex, Icebreaker, WoolyWarm) seem
> wholly different than those I experimented with in my hiking/hunting
> garb 10 years ago. The heavy, overweight fabric, wet dog smell, and
> the itch are no longer attributes to some of the products available
> now.

A lot more expensive, too -- like $89 the Ibex zip front base layer.
Not that some of that chi chi poly (always pictured on the muscular
model) is not expensive, too.

To me, the whole wool v.poly thing is a trick question. When I look
in my drawer to dress for riding or skiing, I am basically chosing
insulation -- and based on the weather, I may take wool or poly,
depending on which of the two items is suited for the day. In my
available garb, the wool model is sometimes too cold, and the poly
model is sometimes too hot. For early fall/spring riding, I like my
thin wool jersey under my rain jacket. Really, I am picking a
particular designed piece of clothing and not a fabric.

For downhill skiing, I wear a 20 year old Craft poly zip base layer
and a rayon-polyester ski sweater I got for Christmas in 1973 and a
Goretex jacket (and a poly vest on really cold days). That sweater
still looks cool after all these years. I'm going to get some new ski
stuff this year, but I'm not going to spend a ton or get anything
super fancy because I can't tell the difference between a decent and
cheap poly layer and uber-expensive wool or super-synthetic. To listen
to people talk about this stuff, you would think you were at a wine
tasting. My jacket is far more important.

The determining factor for commuting is drying time, and on a wet day
(lots of them here in PDX), I will wear poly everything so it can dry
in the shower room while I work. And no, I am not going to bring
multiple changes of riding gear to work so I have a dry wool set to
ride home. I don't love wool that much to go out of my way to buy
multiple sets of clothing. Plus, think of the pain those poor sheep
would have to endure simply to clothe me. The horror! -- Jay Beattie.

Date: 09 Oct 2007 17:41:52
From: John
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

On Oct 8, 8:57 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu >
wrote:
> Tim McNamara wrote:
>
> > Have you actually used wool?
>
> I certainly have.
>
> > One of the things it does better than any
> > synthetics I have tried is stay warm when wet. Another is that it
> > stinks less from sweat than any synthetic I have tried. A third is that
> > wool has a broader comfortable temperature range than any synthetic I
> > have tried.
>
> I used wool back when, and am not looking forward to it again. It may
> have a broad range of comfortable temperatures, but that would not
> include summer temperatures. Believe me. I wore wool jerseys, and
> shorts, in central California summers, and do not wish to relive that
> experience. synthetics are better in warm temperatures, and can be
> washed more vigorously than wool without damage. So, I don't share your
> belief that they stink less. I just toss cycling clothes in with
> everything else now, no need for special care to keep them from shrinkage.
>
> Staying warm when wet? The wicking synthetics are much better than wool
> at that, and don't itch.
>
>
>
> >> base layer, insulating layer (varioust types and weights as needed),
> >> shell with good breathing and some water repelency, everything having
> >> ample zippers.
>
> That works for me, but none of the layers particularly benefits from
> being wool any more. Synthetics have come a long way.
>

As have quality wool garments.

A high quality, very fine merino wool feels much better on the skin
than any synthetic IMO. To me, the difference feels/smells to be: a
softer touch, less sensitive to temperature fluctuations, less
clinging to the skin, better breathing, and less odorous when you need
to use it again without a washing.

The quality wools I have used (Ibex, Icebreaker, WoolyWarm) seem
wholly different than those I experimented with in my hiking/hunting
garb 10 years ago. The heavy, overweight fabric, wet dog smell, and
the itch are no longer attributes to some of the products available
now.

John McMurry

Date: 10 Oct 2007 01:10:11
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

In article
<1191951712.948342.36550@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com >,
John <johnmcmurry@gmail.com > wrote:

> On Oct 8, 8:57 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
> wrote:
> > Tim McNamara wrote:
> >
> > > Have you actually used wool?
> >
> > I certainly have.
> >
> > > One of the things it does better than any
> > > synthetics I have tried is stay warm when wet. Another is that it
> > > stinks less from sweat than any synthetic I have tried. A third is that
> > > wool has a broader comfortable temperature range than any synthetic I
> > > have tried.
> >
> > I used wool back when, and am not looking forward to it again. It may
> > have a broad range of comfortable temperatures, but that would not
> > include summer temperatures. Believe me. I wore wool jerseys, and
> > shorts, in central California summers, and do not wish to relive that
> > experience. synthetics are better in warm temperatures, and can be
> > washed more vigorously than wool without damage. So, I don't share your
> > belief that they stink less. I just toss cycling clothes in with
> > everything else now, no need for special care to keep them from shrinkage.
> >
> > Staying warm when wet? The wicking synthetics are much better than wool
> > at that, and don't itch.
> >
> > >> base layer, insulating layer (varioust types and weights as needed),
> > >> shell with good breathing and some water repelency, everything having
> > >> ample zippers.
> >
> > That works for me, but none of the layers particularly benefits from
> > being wool any more. Synthetics have come a long way.
>
> As have quality wool garments.
>
> A high quality, very fine merino wool feels much better on the skin
> than any synthetic IMO. To me, the difference feels/smells to be: a
> softer touch, less sensitive to temperature fluctuations, less
> clinging to the skin, better breathing, and less odorous when you need
> to use it again without a washing.
>
> The quality wools I have used (Ibex, Icebreaker, WoolyWarm) seem
> wholly different than those I experimented with in my hiking/hunting
> garb 10 years ago. The heavy, overweight fabric, wet dog smell, and
> the itch are no longer attributes to some of the products available
> now.

I was not going to join the fun, but you talked me into it.
I wear an Ibex merino wool jersey in a wide temperature
range. It has all the good qualities you list. Underneath
I wear a thin silk jersey. Even on cold descents, this
is typically sufficient.

--
Michael Press

Date: 09 Oct 2007 15:39:20
From:
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

>A high quality, very fine merino wool feels much better on the skin
>than any synthetic IMO.

But can they be worn in hot and humid weather?

Date: 13 Oct 2007 17:24:05
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

me@privacy.net wrote:
>> A high quality, very fine merino wool feels much better on the skin
>> than any synthetic IMO.
>
> But can they be worn in hot and humid weather?

Ask the sheep.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

Date: 09 Oct 2007 07:08:33
From: JG
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

I can't really offer a comparison, because I've never used
synthetics. Could never get over paying similar prices for the latest
plastic wonder when I could buy wool instead. I've never had a
problem with it being too hot or itchy. It takes some care in
laundering, but you can hang it, and wear it all week before you wash
it.

I will point out it is all the rage in backpacking circles.
Icebreaker, SmartWool, and others have established a well testimonied
niche in the market.

As to the original question, an obvious solution is to use two sets of
clothes, leave one in the office to dry overnight, and take the other
home and leave dry overnight.

JG

Date: 09 Oct 2007 03:54:17
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

well if you're a water pig in the grate NW maybe you'd like NRS

http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product_list.asp?deptid=941

NRS HydroSkin Shirt - S/S

Date: 08 Oct 2007 17:34:08
From: Camilo
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

On Oct 8, 6:28 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <1191791083.091933.55...@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Camilo <campasc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Rob, i can't think of a single thing that wool does better than
> > modern synthetics other than use petrochemicals in its production
> > (although sheep farming isn't all that green either).
>
> The latter has options for being "green," whereas the former does not.

I'd have to be convinced that sheep farming can be very green, but
won't argue with you. All I've seen is vast areas cleared and a lot
of feed being eaten and shat out.

> > More comfortable in terms of the fabric and other factors,
> > (generally) more economical, dries quicker, wicks better, more
> > durable, easier to clean, etc. etc. etc. etc.
>
> Have you actually used wool? One of the things it does better than any
> synthetics I have tried is stay warm when wet. Another is that it
> stinks less from sweat than any synthetic I have tried. A third is that
> wool has a broader comfortable temperature range than any synthetic I
> have tried.

Of course I've used wool. Almost exclusively in years past until
modern fabrics surpassed it in comfort, functionality and economy.

I don't share your experience in any of the points you made (warmth
when wet, smelliness, comfortable temperature range).

> > base layer, insulating layer (varioust types and weights as needed),
> > shell with good breathing and some water repelency, everything having
> > ample zippers.
>
> > Use what you're used to and can afford, adjust as conditions and
> > experience teach you... but why use wool?
>
> Because it works very well for cycling clothing.

It probalby works well, but again, I can't see how it is as good or
better than well designed synthetic garments.

> One downside to wool is poor abrasion resistance. Wool shorts and
> tights wear out quickly compared to Lycra and nylon. The other downside
> is a fairly long drying time, as I mention in another post.

Yea, drying time was one of the reasons (along with comfort) I first
became enamored with synthetics 25 years ago. If you're out in the
wilderness, it's good to be able to wring and shake out a wet garment
and have it be virtually dry. It can take forever to dry a soaked
wool garment. Warmth be damned, it's not comfortable to wear a soaked
wool garment - whether that wetness is from body moisture or rain.

To me, if I actually used wool tights and shorts and discovered they
wore appreciably worse than synthetics, I'd never buy them again.
Sureely any benefit you perceive (which I don't) is totally negated if
it doesn't wear as well?

I should mention that I use almost exclusively wool socks for hiking
and XC skiing. I've found that smartwool and Bridgedale socks are
well worth the money and I haven't found synthetic socks I like as
much.

Date: 08 Oct 2007 23:44:42
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

yeah yeah yeah sure is a lotta wool down at the thrift

I have some too: merino sweaters $2 once $55
useful in Pheenix
seriously, have you seen a frog wearing fur?

Date: 08 Oct 2007 10:58:02
From: Stevie
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

I commute year round in Portland. I love my wool merino jersey and use
it as my base layer with a Burley jacket for a shell when temps hit
the 40's. When temps go below freezing (not too often in Portland) I
add a wool vest. Being cold is never an issue with this combination
down to the high 20's. The jersey is about as thick as a polo shirt so
it's always dry by the end of the day. Fleece lined tights do the job
for the legs but I'll add a pair of cycle shorts on the coldest
days .

I just paid 6.99 for a nice thin used merino wool sweater at a
Goodwill so you don't have to break the bank to try it out.

Steve

Date: 08 Oct 2007 16:10:19
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

Cephalopod!

Disney Land is an infringment down the road east of Jawahar Circle
Garden

Geat Gore-Tex!

Date: 08 Oct 2007 09:48:03
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

"datakoll" <datakoll@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1191859819.721259.271070@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Cephalopod!
>
> Disney Land is an infringment down the road east of Jawahar Circle
> Garden
>
> Geat Gore-Tex!
>

more sightings:
http://www.soulsofdistortion.nl/images/Mayans22.jpg

Date: 08 Oct 2007 14:40:33
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

>
> Have you actually used wool?

gnaw. 19th century thought
keeps you warm when you're wet. duhduhduh

the concept here is staying DRY

Date: 08 Oct 2007 14:27:36
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

and flock quickly left on schedule for city park to block a Ford
Explorer on its way to Disney Land

Date: 08 Oct 2007 08:01:17
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

"datakoll" <datakoll@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1191853656.615202.271610@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> and flock quickly left on schedule for city park to block a Ford
> Explorer on its way to Disney Land
>

That was big news,
where a flock of sheep conducted a critical mass around the
composite manmade Matterhorn. It wasn't until one of the sheeps
accidently bent the wand of Timothy Mouse, causing an uproar in
the Magic Kingdom.
oh btw: Disneyland is one word.
-tom

Date: 08 Oct 2007 13:56:14
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

> -tom

a flock of sheep numbering 162 enturd the front door, flocked thru to
the kitchen and left thru the rear door.
the jacket was lost during the ensuing maylay

Date: 08 Oct 2007 07:08:28
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

"datakoll" <datakoll@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1191851774.809111.137020@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...

>> Just curious, how does a gore-tex riding jacket get stolen from a
>> coffee shop? Unless it was left behind unattended.
>> -tom
>
> a flock of sheep numbering 162 enturd the front door, flocked thru to
> the kitchen and left thru the rear door.
> the jacket was lost during the ensuing maylay
>

Yea right, but not before ordering 162 cappuccino mocha decaf's
with a twist of lemon....................to go. ;-)
-tom

Date: 09 Oct 2007 06:38:37
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

In article <feddks$2a2$1@news.Stanford.EDU >,
"Tom Nakashima" <tom@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:

> "datakoll" <datakoll@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1191851774.809111.137020@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> Just curious, how does a gore-tex riding jacket get stolen from a
> >> coffee shop? Unless it was left behind unattended.
> >> -tom
> >
> > a flock of sheep numbering 162 enturd the front door, flocked thru to
> > the kitchen and left thru the rear door.
> > the jacket was lost during the ensuing maylay
> >
>
> Yea right, but not before ordering 162 cappuccino mocha decaf's
> with a twist of lemon....................to go. ;-)

_This_ what replaced the soda fountain.

When ordering coffee out I get a short pull espresso,
and dump in a bunch of sugar. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

--
Michael Press

Date: 08 Oct 2007 06:45:12
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

"Rob" <smithsummit@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1191728009.558923.288260@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>
> My gore-tex riding jacket was stolen from a coffee shop a while ago
> and I need to purchase something for the rainy season. >
> Best Regards,
> Rob
> Portland, OR

Just curious, how does a gore-tex riding jacket get stolen from a
coffee shop? Unless it was left behind unattended.
-tom

Date: 08 Oct 2007 02:42:38
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

foloowing th e two,post i made here: a long sleeve polyester crew subs
for the polypro long underwear and Polartec 100 on warmer but chilly
days. Campmor is out of mens but there are woman's
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39297296&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1

my use of synthetics does not give them "smell", not other experience.
Wash in diluted hand soap eg palmolive anti bacterial or the baby butt
wash hand soap whose name escapes me then dry flat on a towl or screen
with hot air if possible. Roll up in a towel to squeeze dry after
handwashing. A lot of these fabrics are hydrophilic, drying slowly.
The fabrics absorbs water evenly, the dispersal then routed to the
outer side from body heat and STP functions.

Braking is mentioned. Buy a can of Rubber Belt Conditioner. Spray the
stuff on rim sides, let dry. stops ona squirrel and saves the Kool
Stops.

Poly coated W/P/B are adequate for commuting at $40. You'll be pleased
combining the poly or urethane and a correct base layer.

Date: 07 Oct 2007 14:41:17
From: Donga
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

On Oct 7, 1:33 pm, Rob <smithsum...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> HI All,
>
> I am in my second month of a new job in Portland Oregon. Commuting
> miles are ~150/week, throw in 15-20 more for errands.
>
> My gore-tex riding jacket was stolen from a coffee shop a while ago
> and I need to purchase something for the rainy season. First thought
> was a stretch wind-blocker fleece jacket (Castelli Espresso) with
> light weight synthetic undie top, but should I consider:
>
> wool base layer
> wool trainer (the Woolistic offerings at Vintage Velos seem
> particularly nice).
> lightweight shell
>
> Many fall and winter days in this part of Oregon include rain; but not
> always a steady or heavy rain. We do tend to have a handful or two of
> really miserable (mid-upper 30's and raining hard) days. The commute
> is ~1 hour each way and fairly hilly. I usually stay fairly warm and
> sweat a fair bit. Hiking jacket or other outdoor clothing could be
> pressed into service if need be.
>
> What do you think? Wool or no wool?
>
> Your advice would be much appreciated.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rob
> Portland, OR
> USA

Have a look at the very nice stuff from GroundEffect - http://www.groundeffect.co.nz/
Online from New Zealand, the land where there's a sheep in every man's
bed.

Donga

Date: 07 Oct 2007 14:05:36
From: Camilo
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

On Oct 7, 1:04 pm, Camilo <campasc...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Rob, i can't think of a single thing that wool does better than modern
> synthetics other than use petrochemicals in its production (although
> sheep farming isn't all that green either).
>
> More comfortable in terms of the fabric and other factors, (generally)
> more economical, dries quicker, wicks better, more durable, easier to
> clean, etc. etc. etc. etc.
>
> base layer, insulating layer (varioust types and weights as needed),
> shell with good breathing and some water repelency, everything having
> ample zippers.
>
> Use what you're used to and can afford, adjust as conditions and
> experience teach you... but why use wool?

of course I meant "not use petrochemicals in its production".

Date: 07 Oct 2007 14:04:43
From: Camilo
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

Rob, i can't think of a single thing that wool does better than modern
synthetics other than use petrochemicals in its production (although
sheep farming isn't all that green either).

More comfortable in terms of the fabric and other factors, (generally)
more economical, dries quicker, wicks better, more durable, easier to
clean, etc. etc. etc. etc.

base layer, insulating layer (varioust types and weights as needed),
shell with good breathing and some water repelency, everything having
ample zippers.

Use what you're used to and can afford, adjust as conditions and
experience teach you... but why use wool?

Date: 08 Oct 2007 09:28:42
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

In article <1191791083.091933.55750@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com >,
Camilo <campascual@yahoo.com > wrote:

> Rob, i can't think of a single thing that wool does better than
> modern synthetics other than use petrochemicals in its production
> (although sheep farming isn't all that green either).

The latter has options for being "green," whereas the former does not.

> More comfortable in terms of the fabric and other factors,
> (generally) more economical, dries quicker, wicks better, more
> durable, easier to clean, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Have you actually used wool? One of the things it does better than any
synthetics I have tried is stay warm when wet. Another is that it
stinks less from sweat than any synthetic I have tried. A third is that
wool has a broader comfortable temperature range than any synthetic I
have tried.

> base layer, insulating layer (varioust types and weights as needed),
> shell with good breathing and some water repelency, everything having
> ample zippers.
>
> Use what you're used to and can afford, adjust as conditions and
> experience teach you... but why use wool?

Because it works very well for cycling clothing.

One downside to wool is poor abrasion resistance. Wool shorts and
tights wear out quickly compared to Lycra and nylon. The other downside
is a fairly long drying time, as I mention in another post.

Date: 08 Oct 2007 20:57:26
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

Tim McNamara wrote:
>
> Have you actually used wool?

I certainly have.

> One of the things it does better than any
> synthetics I have tried is stay warm when wet. Another is that it
> stinks less from sweat than any synthetic I have tried. A third is that
> wool has a broader comfortable temperature range than any synthetic I
> have tried.

I used wool back when, and am not looking forward to it again. It may
have a broad range of comfortable temperatures, but that would not
include summer temperatures. Believe me. I wore wool jerseys, and
shorts, in central California summers, and do not wish to relive that
experience. synthetics are better in warm temperatures, and can be
washed more vigorously than wool without damage. So, I don't share your
belief that they stink less. I just toss cycling clothes in with
everything else now, no need for special care to keep them from shrinkage.

Staying warm when wet? The wicking synthetics are much better than wool
at that, and don't itch.
>
>> base layer, insulating layer (varioust types and weights as needed),
>> shell with good breathing and some water repelency, everything having
>> ample zippers.

That works for me, but none of the layers particularly benefits from
being wool any more. Synthetics have come a long way.

--

David L. Johnson

Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig...
You soon find out the pig likes it!

Date: 07 Oct 2007 11:21:45
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

On Oct 6, 8:33 pm, Rob <smithsum...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> HI All,
>
> I am in my second month of a new job in Portland Oregon. Commuting
> miles are ~150/week, throw in 15-20 more for errands.
>
> My gore-tex riding jacket was stolen from a coffee shop a while ago
> and I need to purchase something for the rainy season. First thought
> was a stretch wind-blocker fleece jacket (Castelli Espresso) with
> light weight synthetic undie top, but should I consider:
>
> wool base layer
> wool trainer (the Woolistic offerings at Vintage Velos seem
> particularly nice).
> lightweight shell
>
> Many fall and winter days in this part of Oregon include rain; but not
> always a steady or heavy rain. We do tend to have a handful or two of
> really miserable (mid-upper 30's and raining hard) days. The commute
> is ~1 hour each way and fairly hilly. I usually stay fairly warm and
> sweat a fair bit. Hiking jacket or other outdoor clothing could be
> pressed into service if need be.
>
> What do you think? Wool or no wool?
>
> Your advice would be much appreciated.

Your commute is tough to dress for because you have climbing and
descending -- and depending on your route, some pretty good climbing.
Anyway, I prefer synthetic because it dries faster, which makes the
ride home a lot more enjoyable. Moreover, it does not hang on you
when it gets wet, and it is warmer by weight -- which will matter
during winter, but not so much now. Synthetic is also cheaper and
easier to wash. Nonetheless, I own wool jerseys and like them for
many things.

I have been commuting in PDX year-round for 20+ years but have a much
shorter commute. When I know that I am going for some miles before or
after work, (or when I am riding on the weekend), I typically wear
synthetic layers and a breathable, "water proof" shell. I have a Gill
Event jacket with pit zips that I like. I will wear a wool jersey on
occaision, particularly in the early fall or late spring when I want
less insulation under my jacket or expect it to warm up for the ride
home. During the winter, I wear a fleecy synthetic jersey under my
jacket because for insulation. Also, this jersey is open-weave, and
it breathes when I unzip my jacket when climbing. On light rain days
in the fall or spring, I wear a Sugoi Inverter and switch up the
synthetic base layer depending on how cold it is.

I don't know if you are from around here, but assuming you are new,
here are my favorite tips: (1) get the best, most water-proof shoe
covers you can afford, (2) by a shoe drier from Costco, (3) get
fenders (I assume you have these), (4) buy a good slick tire with lots
of grip. I have yet to find the Holy Grail of high-grip tires (I do
like some of the Michelins), but I do know that some of the new
commuter tires (like my current rear, the Bontragger "Hard Case") are
way too hard and slippery. Pick the wrong tire, and you will find
yourself surfing out of the West Hills. And (5) get some KoolStop
salmon pads for best wet braking.

Enjoy your commute! -- Jay Beattie.

Date: 07 Oct 2007 17:31:02
From: Luke
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

In article <1191781305.010405.203870@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com >, Jay
Beattie <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com > wrote:

> Your commute is tough to dress for because you have climbing and
> descending -- and depending on your route, some pretty good climbing.
> Anyway, I prefer synthetic because it dries faster, which makes the
> ride home a lot more enjoyable. Moreover, it does not hang on you
> when it gets wet, and it is warmer by weight -- which will matter
> during winter, but not so much now. Synthetic is also cheaper and
> easier to wash. Nonetheless, I own wool jerseys and like them for
> many things.

One advantage of wool is that, unlike synthetics - at least those not
treated for the purpose - it's naturally antimicrobial. Sweat and
synthetics equals mucho stench!

Date: 07 Oct 2007 12:55:44
From: Jay
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

"Rob" <smithsummit@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1191728009.558923.288260@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
> HI All,
>
> I am in my second month of a new job in Portland Oregon. Commuting
> miles are ~150/week, throw in 15-20 more for errands.
>
> My gore-tex riding jacket was stolen from a coffee shop a while ago
> and I need to purchase something for the rainy season. First thought
> was a stretch wind-blocker fleece jacket (Castelli Espresso) with
> light weight synthetic undie top, but should I consider:
>
> wool base layer
> wool trainer (the Woolistic offerings at Vintage Velos seem
> particularly nice).
> lightweight shell
>
> Many fall and winter days in this part of Oregon include rain; but not
> always a steady or heavy rain. We do tend to have a handful or two of
> really miserable (mid-upper 30's and raining hard) days. The commute
> is ~1 hour each way and fairly hilly. I usually stay fairly warm and
> sweat a fair bit. Hiking jacket or other outdoor clothing could be
> pressed into service if need be.
>
> What do you think? Wool or no wool?
> Your advice would be much appreciated.
>
> Best Regards,
> Rob
> Portland, OR
> USA
>

I commute year round, 16 miles daily in Chicago. I do not think wool is
well-suited for your commute, for the reasons others have mentioned.

My winter weather strategy is pretty simple. The layer next to the skin
needs to wick. The middle layer needs to insulate, so there is a lot of
flexibility here. Mostly personal preference. The outer layer needs to wind
block, and hopefully will let some of the humidity pass through to the
outside air. My choice is gore-tex, head to toe, including gaiters (commonly
overlooked by bike commuters).

Why are you thinking of changing from gore-tex? Just because of the cost? I
don't think that is a good reason for changing your system. If gore-tex
worked well for you before the theft, just buy another gore-tex shell, and
reconsider your coffee shop security strategy.

Nice stuff (unattended) is a theft risk - J.

Date: 07 Oct 2007 16:32:46
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

home depot carries day glo road wrokers mesh vests

Date: 07 Oct 2007 16:28:24
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

if you buy a hiking parka, consider adding silicone rip stop nylon to
the back lower hem. The cycling position shortens the hiker design
allowing dripping onto your butt

Date: 07 Oct 2007 16:18:11
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

wool is for sheep and feet: polypro is neat

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=77262&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=19313&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=40000000226&storeId=226&categoryId=61304&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=61294

'red ledge' had a "Backpacker" recommended light parka. I bought one
only wearing it briefly indoors where yes immediately the fabric
breathes and is hiker light.

An inexpensive Campmor jacket should last a Portland winter.

Try a Polartec crew with zipper for under jacket, add the poly
underwear for below 30 degrees. Seattle fabrics has W/P/B material
for DIY Gore Tex socks worn over Wigwam acrylics or polypro liners
available from campmor. 3 layer W/P/B Gore sox should be just the
ticket. Clean boots insides first.

search "Backpacker" for information

Date: 07 Oct 2007 06:51:07
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

On Oct 6, 9:33 pm, Rob <smithsum...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> HI All,
>
> I am in my second month of a new job in Portland Oregon. Commuting
> miles are ~150/week, throw in 15-20 more for errands.
>
> My gore-tex riding jacket was stolen from a coffee shop a while ago
> and I need to purchase something for the rainy season. First thought
> was a stretch wind-blocker fleece jacket (Castelli Espresso) with
> light weight synthetic undie top, but should I consider:
>
> wool base layer
> wool trainer (the Woolistic offerings at Vintage Velos seem
> particularly nice).
> lightweight shell
>
> Many fall and winter days in this part of Oregon include rain; but not
> always a steady or heavy rain. We do tend to have a handful or two of
> really miserable (mid-upper 30's and raining hard) days. The commute
> is ~1 hour each way and fairly hilly. I usually stay fairly warm and
> sweat a fair bit. Hiking jacket or other outdoor clothing could be
> pressed into service if need be.
>
> What do you think? Wool or no wool?
>
> Your advice would be much appreciated.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rob
> Portland, OR
> USA

This-
http://www.rei.com/product/666124

With Wool jersey underneath..we sell 'em and they really work well.
(also REI)

Date: 07 Oct 2007 07:52:34
From: richard
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

As mentioned, wool can absorb a lot of water and get heavy. Some people
can't wear wool. It's expensive.

Other than that, wool is my favorite! Nearly all my socks are wool (too
bad D-Feet quit making the Wool-E-Ator!), and I have a pair of jerseys
(one heavy and one light) that are great!

My wool shorts from the 70s are gone, but I hated them (mostly chamois
issues).

Rob wrote:
> HI All,
>
> I am in my second month of a new job in Portland Oregon. Commuting
> miles are ~150/week, throw in 15-20 more for errands.
>
> My gore-tex riding jacket was stolen from a coffee shop a while ago
> and I need to purchase something for the rainy season. First thought
> was a stretch wind-blocker fleece jacket (Castelli Espresso) with
> light weight synthetic undie top, but should I consider:
>
> wool base layer
> wool trainer (the Woolistic offerings at Vintage Velos seem
> particularly nice).
> lightweight shell
>
> Many fall and winter days in this part of Oregon include rain; but not
> always a steady or heavy rain. We do tend to have a handful or two of
> really miserable (mid-upper 30's and raining hard) days. The commute
> is ~1 hour each way and fairly hilly. I usually stay fairly warm and
> sweat a fair bit. Hiking jacket or other outdoor clothing could be
> pressed into service if need be.
>
> What do you think? Wool or no wool?
>
> Your advice would be much appreciated.
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Rob
> Portland, OR
> USA
>

Date: 07 Oct 2007 17:25:30
From: Luke
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

In article <Y5GdneEemKIES5XanZ2dnUVZ_sKqnZ2d@insightbb.com >, richard
<rmcclary@insight.bb.com > wrote:

> As mentioned, wool can absorb a lot of water and get heavy. Some people
> can't wear wool. It's expensive.

Not necessarily. My closet is full of shetland, merino, and lambswool
pullovers/vests. Without exception all were acquired for $5 - $10 each
at local used clothes/thrift shops around town; these outlets are also
flush with fleece (synthetic) insulating layers as well, but high
quality shells are very rare there.

From the standpoint of performance there is *no* difference between
these budget (wool) alternatives and the very expensive retro/hip
counterparts by Icebreaker et al. While some of the goods are
excessively worn and threadbare, I find there's no shortage of
indistinguishable from new offerings. Check it out!

Date: 06 Oct 2007 23:18:43
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

In article <1191728009.558923.288260@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com >,
Rob <smithsummit@yahoo.com > wrote:

> HI All,
>
> I am in my second month of a new job in Portland Oregon. Commuting
> miles are ~150/week, throw in 15-20 more for errands.
>
> My gore-tex riding jacket was stolen from a coffee shop a while ago
> and I need to purchase something for the rainy season. First thought
> was a stretch wind-blocker fleece jacket (Castelli Espresso) with
> light weight synthetic undie top, but should I consider:
>
> wool base layer wool trainer (the Woolistic offerings at Vintage
> Velos seem particularly nice). lightweight shell
>
> Many fall and winter days in this part of Oregon include rain; but
> not always a steady or heavy rain. We do tend to have a handful or
> two of really miserable (mid-upper 30's and raining hard) days. The
> commute is ~1 hour each way and fairly hilly. I usually stay fairly
> warm and sweat a fair bit. Hiking jacket or other outdoor clothing
> could be pressed into service if need be.
>
> What do you think? Wool or no wool?
>
> Your advice would be much appreciated.

Well, I like wool for cycling clothing. The one downside is that it
doesn't dry rapidly, so if you turn up for work in the morning with wet
wool you'll be putting wet wool back on to ride home. You'll still be
warm, but the wool won't dry out at work unless you can do something to
help it along. And your office will smell like wet sheep.

As for a jacket, I have been very pleased with the Showers Pass Elite.
With that and a single layer I find I am comfortable to surprisingly low
temps. The jacket is well vented and I stay drier inside it than any
other jacket I have used.

Date: 06 Oct 2007 20:54:22
From: Mark
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

Rob wrote:
> HI All,
>
> I am in my second month of a new job in Portland Oregon. Commuting
> miles are ~150/week, throw in 15-20 more for errands.
>
> My gore-tex riding jacket was stolen from a coffee shop a while ago
> and I need to purchase something for the rainy season. First thought
> was a stretch wind-blocker fleece jacket (Castelli Espresso) with
> light weight synthetic undie top, but should I consider:
>
> wool base layer
> wool trainer (the Woolistic offerings at Vintage Velos seem
> particularly nice).
> lightweight shell
>
> Many fall and winter days in this part of Oregon include rain; but not
> always a steady or heavy rain. We do tend to have a handful or two of
> really miserable (mid-upper 30's and raining hard) days. The commute
> is ~1 hour each way and fairly hilly. I usually stay fairly warm and
> sweat a fair bit. Hiking jacket or other outdoor clothing could be
> pressed into service if need be.
>
> What do you think? Wool or no wool?

Wool is very nice when dry, and insulates when wet, but in my limited
experience, it absorbs a LOT of water. Contrast fleece, which also
insulates when wet, but most of the water wicks downward and out. It's
astonishing how little water fleece retains.

I sweat a LOT, and so I've tended to avoid wool for rain rides (great
for other rides if I won't be sweating too much, but once I put on a
windproof shell, I'm soggy inside and out). Clearly YMMV.

Heavy wool socks work well for me in rain, but I don't think my feet
sweat that much compared to the rest of me. Also, wool is "stiff"
enough that the socks retain some insulating thickness even with the
pressure under my soles. I think fleece would be a poor choice /there/.

Granted, I have limited experience with wool garments in the rain
(except socks). Wool is the fabric of choice for the retro crowd, so
listen to other opinions too.

Mark (Salem, OR) J.

Date: 15 Oct 2007 13:03:35
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??

"Mark" <remove.mandmlj.this@remove.comcast.this.net > wrote in message
news:rKWdnYPnFJfoxZXanZ2dnUVZ_s2tnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Rob wrote:
> > HI All,
> >
> > I am in my second month of a new job in Portland Oregon. Commuting
> > miles are ~150/week, throw in 15-20 more for errands.
> >
> > My gore-tex riding jacket was stolen from a coffee shop a while ago
> > and I need to purchase something for the rainy season. First thought
> > was a stretch wind-blocker fleece jacket (Castelli Espresso) with
> > light weight synthetic undie top, but should I consider:
> >
> > wool base layer
> > wool trainer (the Woolistic offerings at Vintage Velos seem
> > particularly nice).
> > lightweight shell
> >
> > Many fall and winter days in this part of Oregon include rain; but not
> > always a steady or heavy rain. We do tend to have a handful or two of
> > really miserable (mid-upper 30's and raining hard) days. The commute
> > is ~1 hour each way and fairly hilly. I usually stay fairly warm and
> > sweat a fair bit. Hiking jacket or other outdoor clothing could be
> > pressed into service if need be.
> >
> > What do you think? Wool or no wool?
>
> Wool is very nice when dry, and insulates when wet, but in my limited
> experience, it absorbs a LOT of water. Contrast fleece, which also
> insulates when wet, but most of the water wicks downward and out. It's
> astonishing how little water fleece retains.
>
> I sweat a LOT, and so I've tended to avoid wool for rain rides (great
> for other rides if I won't be sweating too much, but once I put on a
> windproof shell, I'm soggy inside and out). Clearly YMMV.
>
> Heavy wool socks work well for me in rain, but I don't think my feet
> sweat that much compared to the rest of me. Also, wool is "stiff"
> enough that the socks retain some insulating thickness even with the
> pressure under my soles. I think fleece would be a poor choice /there/.
>
> Granted, I have limited experience with wool garments in the rain
> (except socks). Wool is the fabric of choice for the retro crowd, so
> listen to other opinions too.
>
> Mark (Salem, OR) J.

I ride with wool jerseys a lot. It's great in a lot of ways but wet wool
stinks. Something to be aware of if working in a social setting.

Chas.

Date: 06 Oct 2007 22:44:03
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: Wool for winter riding in Oregon??