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Main
Date: 06 Sep 2007 05:39:34
From:
Subject: brief notes on rookie PBP and comment on the "madness"
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PBP was rough, but for me the biggest issue wasn't the weather, it was
the lack of places to sleep when I needed it. Fortunately, I made a
couple of key last-second purchases I hadn't really thought I'd need.
These were Sugoi heavy shoe covers and mid-weight leg warmers. I had a
heavy pair of leg warmers (Kolcharik wool) that I knew would be too
heavy. I suffered the second night because didn't stop to put on the
stuff needed.
So, like many others, I made it to Lodiac needing sleep along with a
few friends. We agreed to take a long sleep break and I never managed
to fall asleep in the bright cafeteria w/all the noise. I couldn't
believe some of the volunteers who (in my state of mind) seemed to be
trying to keep people up. I know that wasn't the case. Like, I one
point they started opening the windows more even though it just let in
the freezing wind besides lots of talking while standing next to
people trying to fall asleep. That wasted a few hours of not biking
and little rest.
Here I'll say my legs weren't feeling bad even though I usually slow
down a lot between 200 and 250 miles. It must have been that this was
the first time I've ever taken Ibuprofen during a ride. I took one
Advil at each control as a preventive.
Got to Brest feeling OK except tired. I did like others and slept on
the grass in the glorious sun for 30-45 min. When I woke up, my left
knee was sore. I upped the advil to 4xper 12 hours, as an experienced
friend (PBP, BMB) said 3-4 is what it takes once you're fighting an
existing pain. I spin all the time in general, and rode the rest of
the ride as "gingerly" as possible to avoid making it worse while
hoping it would get better.
Another thing I hope people read. I saw a friend there who was clearly
out of it. I assumed it was sleep deprivation and left thinking I'd
convinced him to sleep for a few hours. He's a very strong rider so he
could've afforded the time. Later in the ride he DNF'd and in the
hospital was diagnosed with heart and liver issues. I still don't know
what was cause and what effect (haven't talked to him yet), but I
think RUSA should start providing some rider ed about watching out for
other riders. Yeah, we're supposed to be independent, but I agree with
other posts I've seen that rider exhaustion was probably the cause of
a lot of crashes. We need to be proactive about getting people off
their bikes when they clearly can't ride.
Almost forgot to add. I stopped at a cafe after Brest and left my
helmet there. I'd never do downhills without a helmet and really
considered this a crisis at the time b/c it had my headlamp on it.
This headlamp was awesome for riding in general beyond its intended
purpose of making it easy to see the route markers. Highly recommended
for all night riding now unless you have a Schmidt hub.
At a stop before Lodeac I slept a couple hours where they had a nice
corner of pads blocked off. I'd brought my kitchen timer so I could
punch in the time I wanted to sleep (no working phone or watch w/an
alarm). Someone had to wake me up by shaking my shoulder even though
the alarm was right next to my head. I napped at Lodeac like everyone
else, this time no problem putting my head on the cafeteria table and
passing out. Another survival method was I'd bring in my clothes (in
ziploc bags) and use that as a pillow, with one clean shirt on top of
the bags.
After that it was the typical just keep pedaling until you finish, no
major drama and not much more sleep. The only drama was my friend
mentioned before. I British rider pulled him over because of his
erratic riding and asked if anyone knew him. So I pulled over, we
found someone with a phone and called officials to pick him up. This
was at night and I was very worried about being dropped by the big
group we were in. The British guy was willing to wait for the car and
I took off - I realize how lame this sounds and am very grateful to
him.
Now on to the woman who's probably over vilified. I read most of the
post yesterday, eventually I switched from skimming to stopping, but
there are some major things that apply to other people:
1. The problem with your bag??? Did you ride the brevets and all
summer without using the setup you used during PBP? I hope there was a
last second breakdown that caused the issue, because otherwise it was
sheer stupidity to not have tested your setup long before. I know my
Carradice to experimenting and finally investing in the more expensive
support to make it work with my Roubaix.
2. Not pulling. It sounds like you're my worst nightmare of a
triathlete who doesn't know anything about cycling. OK - how many
responses will that get? Of course people expect you to share the
load. You were a complete asshole just taking off. I you could do that
you could've pulled your best.
I'm glad I don't remember more of the post but a lot of it sounded
like lack a planned and unbelievable lack of experience.
Dave,
Chicago
Great Lakes R's
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Date: 10 Sep 2007 18:33:17
From:
Subject: Re: brief notes on rookie PBP and comment on the "madness"
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On Sep 6, 1:48 pm, Jay Beattie <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com > wrote:
> On Sep 6, 6:57 am, "russellseat...@yahoo.com"
>
>
>
> <russellseat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 6, 8:19 am, "Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > "Aeek" <aeeee...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
>
> > >news:2iuvd3tc4l052prsbb2odqv904qt9j5vup@4ax.com...
>
> > > > On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 13:54:55 +0100, "Clive George"
> > > > <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > >>In a non-competitive environment (heck, I don't do any other sort) I'd not
> > > >>worry about giving somebody who's knackered a pull. Maybe they'll recover
> > > >>and give me a pull in return. I'd certainly not be arsing around trying to
>
> > > > I'm the other way round, on a non-competive ride I'll happily take a
> > > > turn after sucking some wheel.
>
> > > a) that's not the other way round at all
>
> > > b) If you're knackered? After one mile on a 750 mile ride? Would you throw a
> > > hissy fit if somebody didn't after you gave them a pull for a fairly short
> > > distance, especially if you'd demonstrated you were going faster by
> > > overtaking them in the first place? TBH I think most around here, including
> > > the lady in question, are happy about taking turns - it was just the one guy
> > > who sulked who was being odd.
>
> > > cheers,
> > > clive
>
> > I'm with Clive here. 771 miles ofPBPis a long way. I tried to
> > conserve as much energy as possible at the beginning, middle, and
> > right up until I was within a few miles of the finish. I did not mind
> > if people jumped on my wheel when I passed them. Didn't slow me down
> > any. And with the hills, drafters were not really able to suck a
> > wheel that long. Although on the return into Tinteniac a guy latched
> > onto my wheel with about 5 miles to the control and he stayed with
> > me. I didn't try to drop him but I maintained a steady pace up the
> > hills. It was kind of fun pulling him along on the good rollers and
> > with a tailwind at that point. First and last 100 miles were good for
> > drafting but too many changes in elevation during the other miles to
> > really draft. Ride in a group yes, but not really close enough to get
> > lots of wind protection. During the first 60 miles or so I drafted
> > more than I pulled. I did pull some but was more than content to let
> > the faster people help me along.
>
> > On long rides you have to look out for yourself. Me, myself, and I
> > take precedence over everyone else. There are too many things that
> > can happen to sacrifice extra energy and effort helping someone else
> > if its not necessary. Someone choking to death, sure stop a few
> > seconds and give the heimlic maneuver. Someone bleeding to death in
> > the road. Sure stop and drag them out of the road so they don't get
> > run over. Maybe find a string to tie a tourniquet. But at mile 100
> > or 200 or 300 or 400 or 500 or 600 of a 771 mile ride using energy
> > breaking the wind to help someone else go faster, make darn sure you
> > are not sacrificing your chances of completion. Some make the
> > argument that working together makes everyone faster in the group. On
> > short rides yes. But if you burn up after 20-40 miles of fast riding
> > and then ride slow for the next 200 miles, you are going to be slower
> > than if you never drafted at all.- Hide quoted text -
>
> Generally speaking, the only reason to get pissed at someone sitting
> on your wheel is that it is somehow rude or anti-social, or that the
> following rider does not pull through and share the work. Otherwise,
> having someone on your wheel really makes no difference effort-wise
> (although I have heard variously that it helps or hurts the lead
> rider).
>
> I did a 200 mile Seattle to Portland in about 8:40 (including three or
> four stops) in a group of eight racer buddies. We accumulated
> probably sixty more riders as we pulled through groups that got
> earlier starts (skimming the cream as we went). No one took off or
> screwed up the rythm. It was a thing of beauty -- way better than a
> road race. We lost some people in the rolling hills, but most of the
> core group finished together.
>
> A well-matched group can work miracles even on long rides -- long
> being 200 miles. I couldn't speak to anything much longer than that,
> though. When I finished that STP, I was done -- and I did not have
> another 600 miles in the reserve tank -- maybe eight or nine to get
> home and a enough energy to hoist some pints and pizza. No desire to
> spend more than 10-12 hours on my bike. Cuts in to my sleepy-time
> after that. -- Jay Beattie.
This is Dave, the guy to whom Clive was responding initially. I don't
have any problem with someone drafting me and not pulling if they're
too exhausted to do it. This issue is, if you have the energy to ride
off in front of them you have the energy to do a pull.
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Date: 06 Sep 2007 11:48:56
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: brief notes on rookie PBP and comment on the "madness"
|
On Sep 6, 6:57 am, "russellseat...@yahoo.com"
<russellseat...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Sep 6, 8:19 am, "Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Aeek" <aeeee...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
>
> >news:2iuvd3tc4l052prsbb2odqv904qt9j5vup@4ax.com...
>
> > > On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 13:54:55 +0100, "Clive George"
> > > <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > >>In a non-competitive environment (heck, I don't do any other sort) I'd not
> > >>worry about giving somebody who's knackered a pull. Maybe they'll recover
> > >>and give me a pull in return. I'd certainly not be arsing around trying to
>
> > > I'm the other way round, on a non-competive ride I'll happily take a
> > > turn after sucking some wheel.
>
> > a) that's not the other way round at all
>
> > b) If you're knackered? After one mile on a 750 mile ride? Would you throw a
> > hissy fit if somebody didn't after you gave them a pull for a fairly short
> > distance, especially if you'd demonstrated you were going faster by
> > overtaking them in the first place? TBH I think most around here, including
> > the lady in question, are happy about taking turns - it was just the one guy
> > who sulked who was being odd.
>
> > cheers,
> > clive
>
> I'm with Clive here. 771 miles of PBP is a long way. I tried to
> conserve as much energy as possible at the beginning, middle, and
> right up until I was within a few miles of the finish. I did not mind
> if people jumped on my wheel when I passed them. Didn't slow me down
> any. And with the hills, drafters were not really able to suck a
> wheel that long. Although on the return into Tinteniac a guy latched
> onto my wheel with about 5 miles to the control and he stayed with
> me. I didn't try to drop him but I maintained a steady pace up the
> hills. It was kind of fun pulling him along on the good rollers and
> with a tailwind at that point. First and last 100 miles were good for
> drafting but too many changes in elevation during the other miles to
> really draft. Ride in a group yes, but not really close enough to get
> lots of wind protection. During the first 60 miles or so I drafted
> more than I pulled. I did pull some but was more than content to let
> the faster people help me along.
>
> On long rides you have to look out for yourself. Me, myself, and I
> take precedence over everyone else. There are too many things that
> can happen to sacrifice extra energy and effort helping someone else
> if its not necessary. Someone choking to death, sure stop a few
> seconds and give the heimlic maneuver. Someone bleeding to death in
> the road. Sure stop and drag them out of the road so they don't get
> run over. Maybe find a string to tie a tourniquet. But at mile 100
> or 200 or 300 or 400 or 500 or 600 of a 771 mile ride using energy
> breaking the wind to help someone else go faster, make darn sure you
> are not sacrificing your chances of completion. Some make the
> argument that working together makes everyone faster in the group. On
> short rides yes. But if you burn up after 20-40 miles of fast riding
> and then ride slow for the next 200 miles, you are going to be slower
> than if you never drafted at all.- Hide quoted text -
Generally speaking, the only reason to get pissed at someone sitting
on your wheel is that it is somehow rude or anti-social, or that the
following rider does not pull through and share the work. Otherwise,
having someone on your wheel really makes no difference effort-wise
(although I have heard variously that it helps or hurts the lead
rider).
I did a 200 mile Seattle to Portland in about 8:40 (including three or
four stops) in a group of eight racer buddies. We accumulated
probably sixty more riders as we pulled through groups that got
earlier starts (skimming the cream as we went). No one took off or
screwed up the rythm. It was a thing of beauty -- way better than a
road race. We lost some people in the rolling hills, but most of the
core group finished together.
A well-matched group can work miracles even on long rides -- long
being 200 miles. I couldn't speak to anything much longer than that,
though. When I finished that STP, I was done -- and I did not have
another 600 miles in the reserve tank -- maybe eight or nine to get
home and a enough energy to hoist some pints and pizza. No desire to
spend more than 10-12 hours on my bike. Cuts in to my sleepy-time
after that. -- Jay Beattie.
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Date: 06 Sep 2007 08:38:35
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: brief notes on rookie PBP and comment on the "madness"
|
MailToDaveR@gmail.com wrote:
> PBP was rough, but for me the biggest issue wasn't the weather, it was
> the lack of places to sleep when I needed it. {SNIP}
Will Jobst Brandt (at Stanford Alumni yada yada yada) flame you for posting
this in RB-Tech (as he's done previously in -misc)?!?
Considering /his/ latest thread, I'm guessing...not.
BS (called when seen)
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Date: 06 Sep 2007 06:57:36
From: russellseaton1@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: brief notes on rookie PBP and comment on the "madness"
|
On Sep 6, 8:19 am, "Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk > wrote:
> "Aeek" <aeeee...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
>
> news:2iuvd3tc4l052prsbb2odqv904qt9j5vup@4ax.com...
>
> > On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 13:54:55 +0100, "Clive George"
> > <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >>In a non-competitive environment (heck, I don't do any other sort) I'd not
> >>worry about giving somebody who's knackered a pull. Maybe they'll recover
> >>and give me a pull in return. I'd certainly not be arsing around trying to
>
> > I'm the other way round, on a non-competive ride I'll happily take a
> > turn after sucking some wheel.
>
> a) that's not the other way round at all
>
> b) If you're knackered? After one mile on a 750 mile ride? Would you throw a
> hissy fit if somebody didn't after you gave them a pull for a fairly short
> distance, especially if you'd demonstrated you were going faster by
> overtaking them in the first place? TBH I think most around here, including
> the lady in question, are happy about taking turns - it was just the one guy
> who sulked who was being odd.
>
> cheers,
> clive
I'm with Clive here. 771 miles of PBP is a long way. I tried to
conserve as much energy as possible at the beginning, middle, and
right up until I was within a few miles of the finish. I did not mind
if people jumped on my wheel when I passed them. Didn't slow me down
any. And with the hills, drafters were not really able to suck a
wheel that long. Although on the return into Tinteniac a guy latched
onto my wheel with about 5 miles to the control and he stayed with
me. I didn't try to drop him but I maintained a steady pace up the
hills. It was kind of fun pulling him along on the good rollers and
with a tailwind at that point. First and last 100 miles were good for
drafting but too many changes in elevation during the other miles to
really draft. Ride in a group yes, but not really close enough to get
lots of wind protection. During the first 60 miles or so I drafted
more than I pulled. I did pull some but was more than content to let
the faster people help me along.
On long rides you have to look out for yourself. Me, myself, and I
take precedence over everyone else. There are too many things that
can happen to sacrifice extra energy and effort helping someone else
if its not necessary. Someone choking to death, sure stop a few
seconds and give the heimlic maneuver. Someone bleeding to death in
the road. Sure stop and drag them out of the road so they don't get
run over. Maybe find a string to tie a tourniquet. But at mile 100
or 200 or 300 or 400 or 500 or 600 of a 771 mile ride using energy
breaking the wind to help someone else go faster, make darn sure you
are not sacrificing your chances of completion. Some make the
argument that working together makes everyone faster in the group. On
short rides yes. But if you burn up after 20-40 miles of fast riding
and then ride slow for the next 200 miles, you are going to be slower
than if you never drafted at all.
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Date: 06 Sep 2007 15:09:17
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: brief notes on rookie PBP and comment on the "madness"
|
BTW in case there's any confusion, the longest ride I ever did was about 180
miles about 16 years ago - ie I'm merely posting as an outsider...
cheers,
clive
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Date: 06 Sep 2007 13:54:55
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: brief notes on rookie PBP and comment on the "madness"
|
<MailToDaveR@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1189082374.107472.69440@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> 2. Not pulling. It sounds like you're my worst nightmare of a
> triathlete who doesn't know anything about cycling. OK - how many
> responses will that get? Of course people expect you to share the
> load. You were a complete asshole just taking off. I you could do that
> you could've pulled your best.
In a non-competitive environment (heck, I don't do any other sort) I'd not
worry about giving somebody who's knackered a pull. Maybe they'll recover
and give me a pull in return. I'd certainly not be arsing around trying to
get rid of them by shouting etc after a mile or so. On a big event such as
PBP I definitely wouldn't expect exact parity - different people feel good
at different times. Sounds like the lady in question was doing her fair
share most of the day - pretty much the opposite of what you're suggesting.
clive
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Date: 06 Sep 2007 23:09:56
From: Aeek
Subject: Re: brief notes on rookie PBP and comment on the "madness"
|
On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 13:54:55 +0100, "Clive George"
<clive@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk > wrote:
>In a non-competitive environment (heck, I don't do any other sort) I'd not
>worry about giving somebody who's knackered a pull. Maybe they'll recover
>and give me a pull in return. I'd certainly not be arsing around trying to
I'm the other way round, on a non-competive ride I'll happily take a
turn after sucking some wheel.
Racing, they're collectively trying to drop me damn it, I'm not going
to help them - my speed is greater than my endurance.
Handicaps are different, I have to do what I can to help.
Still, I admire anyone who's finished a PBP.
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Date: 06 Sep 2007 14:19:13
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: brief notes on rookie PBP and comment on the "madness"
|
"Aeek" <aeeeeeek@tpg.com.au > wrote in message
news:2iuvd3tc4l052prsbb2odqv904qt9j5vup@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 13:54:55 +0100, "Clive George"
> <clive@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In a non-competitive environment (heck, I don't do any other sort) I'd not
>>worry about giving somebody who's knackered a pull. Maybe they'll recover
>>and give me a pull in return. I'd certainly not be arsing around trying to
>
> I'm the other way round, on a non-competive ride I'll happily take a
> turn after sucking some wheel.
a) that's not the other way round at all
b) If you're knackered? After one mile on a 750 mile ride? Would you throw a
hissy fit if somebody didn't after you gave them a pull for a fairly short
distance, especially if you'd demonstrated you were going faster by
overtaking them in the first place? TBH I think most around here, including
the lady in question, are happy about taking turns - it was just the one guy
who sulked who was being odd.
cheers,
clive
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