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Main
Date: 05 Aug 2007 21:12:04
From: Steven S
Subject: cannot get rid off hop
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Good day all
I have been truing the rear wheel on my commuter bicycle which has taken a
bit of a beating over the potholed streets of Chicago. Anyways I got it
true except for one spot. a 2mm hop centered over 1 spoke. The spoke is a
drive side and is as tight as I can get it [nipple starting to round despite
being well lubed]. It doesn't seem to help. Is there a way to repair the
rim?
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Date: 07 Aug 2007 11:56:21
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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on the handedness, i don't know: changing the hub is more frequent
here. I assume, the reality of swapping spokes forward and aft of the
nipple hole reveals the coprrect method. finding the air hole under
spokes is no big deal.
The even spoke tension "idea" is not the next step.
the next step is reducing, or eliminating hop not even spoke tension.
bicycle wheels are not run on the salt flats, don't worry about it
just true the wheel. Trueing the wheel gives "even spoke tension" more
or less. If the tension was not "more or less" even then the wheel
'would not function. '
even spoke/nipple tension is a math concept in theory, a feel
experience in practice.
when will you get a feeeeeel for rim building? who knows? anyway he's
busy.
as you get past lateral to radial then combine the two, with deftness
at taking a grossly beaten rim and grossly torqueing it back into
shape or artfully cajoling a new rim/spokes/hub into shape, the even
spoke feel begins as you adjust each corrective nipple turn with
comprehension of where that specific torque lies in the total plan to
true. hahahahaha!hehe
like the bridge in lake land.
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Date: 07 Aug 2007 04:46:12
From: landotter
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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On Aug 7, 12:24 am, jim beam <spamvo...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 23:10:27 -0500, Steven S wrote:
> >> In the blue trunks we have the champion Jobst Brandt, and in the red
> >> trunks the challenger jim beam!
>
> > Ok I guess that point is debatable but it seems moot. Of all the new rims
> > I've looked at none seem to be annodized anymore.
>
> just order some mavic ksyriums and stop fucking around, retard
Is it the testosterone injection or the fifth Blanton's on the rocks?
We'll never know!
For what it's worth $250 or less of bits assembled by you, or your
local Pinocchio mourner gets your a far lighter, cheaper, stronger,
and easier to service wheel than a Krysium.
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Date: 07 Aug 2007 00:05:30
From: Steven S
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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>> just order some mavic ksyriums and stop fucking around, retard<<
I don't think I am going to spring $500 for a botique racing wheels to slap
on my old $150 1990 Trek 1400. Besides it probably wouldn't fit in the 126
dropouts. In any case this thread is starting to wander off topic. I was
just looking at a cheap option to keep the wheels on my commuter bike in
decent condition so I can continue commuting 40 miles a day to work/school
and back without being tossed into traffic on Elston Ave when the wheels
explode. It seems my options are to
1. attmept to rebuild the wheel and bring it back into shape as datakoll
suggested
2. replace the rims with something cheap, but useable ie the Sun cr-18's
I think I may give 1 a shot as I prefer to save my money for my better
leissure bikes.
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Date: 08 Aug 2007 23:06:37
From: Paul Kopit
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 00:05:30 -0500, "Steven S" <loach_lover[remove spam
tag]@hotmail.com > wrote:
>1990 Trek 1400. Besides it probably wouldn't fit in the 126
>dropouts. In any case this thread is starting to wander off topic.
On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 00:05:30 -0500, in rec.bicycles.tech you wrote:
>1990 Trek 1400. Besides it probably wouldn't fit in the 126
>dropouts. In any case this thread is starting to wander off topic.
I've respaced hubs to 128 mm onn Trek of that vintabe and the wheel
went right into dropouts w/o any forcing. I removed 2 mm of spacers
from the hubs.
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Date: 06 Aug 2007 21:59:08
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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landotter wrote:
> On Aug 7, 12:24 am, jim beam <spamvo...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 23:10:27 -0500, Steven S wrote:
>>>> In the blue trunks we have the champion Jobst Brandt, and in the red
>>>> trunks the challenger jim beam!
>>> Ok I guess that point is debatable but it seems moot. Of all the new rims
>>> I've looked at none seem to be annodized anymore.
>> just order some mavic ksyriums and stop fucking around, retard
>
> Is it the testosterone injection or the fifth Blanton's on the rocks?
> We'll never know!
a simple examination of the posting headers will tell you...
>
>
> For what it's worth $250 or less of bits assembled by you, or your
> local Pinocchio mourner gets your a far lighter, cheaper, stronger,
> and easier to service wheel than a Krysium.
>
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Date: 07 Aug 2007 04:33:39
From: landotter
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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On Aug 6, 11:10 pm, "Steven S" <loach_lover[remove spam
tag]@hotmail.com > wrote:
> > In the blue trunks we have the champion Jobst Brandt, and in the red
> > trunks the challenger jim beam!
>
> Ok I guess that point is debatable but it seems moot. Of all the new rims
> I've looked at none seem to be annodized anymore.
A lot of rims certainly are painted (powdercoated) these days, likely
as it's simply cheaper than anodizing or polishing, but Velocity still
has quite an assortment of anodized colors. The problem was never with
the light colored anodizations, but with the dark and thick stuff.
I've had an eyelet pull out of the notorious MA3. Maybe it was the
drilling or the eyelets or small gnomes, but it seemed specific to
dark anodizing. I'll leave the science and bickering to the eggheads.
A pair of silver polish CR-18s is a class act, by the way, and for
sixty bucks plus your beverage of choice, a bargain of a bike refresh--
as long as you're fairly competent with a spoke wrench. Get the slack
out, then build the tension in layers, then the dish in layers of
turns... Works for me at least. ;-)
Don't forget to get some fresh spoke nipples if the old ones are
chewed up.
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Date: 07 Aug 2007 02:59:34
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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no, handedness is a no-show. the new rim is electrical taped to the
old rim and spokes swapped over. the handd nesss or off center
locations match up.
repairing the old rims gives spares.
do you read the instructions on the net? six spoke nipples loosened or
unloosend tend not to alter the lateral plane. So 6 goes down tight on
the bend side to start the true-giving the bend a head start.
and the opposite side gets a loose start aso as to tug the bend that
way: worry about takening out that high spot later as its not actually
bent.
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Date: 06 Aug 2007 23:08:22
From: Steven S
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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"datakoll" <datakoll@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1186455574.756219.164700@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> no, handedness is a no-show. the new rim is electrical taped to the
> old rim and spokes swapped over. the handd nesss or off center
> locations match up.
> repairing the old rims gives spares.
> do you read the instructions on the net? six spoke nipples loosened or
> unloosend tend not to alter the lateral plane. So 6 goes down tight on
> the bend side to start the true-giving the bend a head start.
> and the opposite side gets a loose start aso as to tug the bend that
> way: worry about takening out that high spot later as its not actually
> bent.
I am a bit confused. By handedness I mean if I put the two rims side by
side lined up at the valve hole and find that rim A starts with a left side
spoke hole and rim BE starts with a right hand spoke. From what I've read
I'd need to rotate rim B 1 spoke hole and live with the fact that the valve
won't be between parallel spokes... a problem for pumping?
You're proposing that I just detesion and start the old rim in such a
way that as I tension it up the outward rim bend will be pulled inwards by
spoke tension. I guess the downside is I would end up with uneven spoke
tension in the end? I suppose I could try it.
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Date: 06 Aug 2007 22:03:21
From: landotter
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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On Aug 6, 1:26 pm, ssch...@uic.edu wrote:
> > The bike has black annodized Wolber GTX rims. The erd I looked up was
> > 613. It is a standard 32 3X with Shimano 105 1055 series hubs.
>
> Hey those Suns cr-18 have an erd of 612 should be good replacement and
> only around $30 a piece. The only thing I need to worry about is the
> handedness of the spoke holes I guess.
Ja, though good luck finding a 622mm CR-18 in anodized black.
Otherwise easy to swap spokes one by one with a driver, take out slack
in new spokes, slap in a stand or rear triangle and true up!
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Date: 06 Aug 2007 20:50:24
From: Steven S
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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"landotter" <landotter@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1186437801.711359.287260@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 6, 1:26 pm, ssch...@uic.edu wrote:
>> > The bike has black annodized Wolber GTX rims. The erd I looked up was
>> > 613. It is a standard 32 3X with Shimano 105 1055 series hubs.
>>
>> Hey those Suns cr-18 have an erd of 612 should be good replacement and
>> only around $30 a piece. The only thing I need to worry about is the
>> handedness of the spoke holes I guess.
>
> Ja, though good luck finding a 622mm CR-18 in anodized black.
> Otherwise easy to swap spokes one by one with a driver, take out slack
> in new spokes, slap in a stand or rear triangle and true up!
>
Well no need for the black annodized rims. From what I've read annodizing
actually weakens the rims by creating microcracks. I think I'll replace
both rims as the front is has a chip in the sidewall.
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Date: 06 Aug 2007 21:39:39
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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Steven S wrote:
> "landotter" <landotter@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1186437801.711359.287260@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>> On Aug 6, 1:26 pm, ssch...@uic.edu wrote:
>>>> The bike has black annodized Wolber GTX rims. The erd I looked up was
>>>> 613. It is a standard 32 3X with Shimano 105 1055 series hubs.
>>> Hey those Suns cr-18 have an erd of 612 should be good replacement and
>>> only around $30 a piece. The only thing I need to worry about is the
>>> handedness of the spoke holes I guess.
>> Ja, though good luck finding a 622mm CR-18 in anodized black.
>> Otherwise easy to swap spokes one by one with a driver, take out slack
>> in new spokes, slap in a stand or rear triangle and true up!
>>
>
> Well no need for the black annodized rims. From what I've read annodizing
> actually weakens the rims by creating microcracks. I think I'll replace
> both rims as the front is has a chip in the sidewall.
>
>
you'll have a hard time finding a rim that's not anodized - regardless
of color.
and the microcracking thing is a somewhat embarrassing misdiagnosis by
someone working with insufficient information. rim cracking is the
result of the [natural] anisotropy of the rim extrusion and excess spoke
tension. and /always/ use the rim manufacturer spoke tension spec -
tension "as high as the rim can bear" theory is based on yet another
embarrassing error - that increasing tension increases strength. it
doesn't.
bottom line, disregard rim color - just buy what you want and use a $60
tensiometer to ensure correct spoke tension.
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Date: 06 Aug 2007 20:53:57
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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Steven S??? wrote:
> ...From what I've read annodizing actually weakens the rims by creating microcracks....
In the blue trunks we have the champion Jobst Brandt, and in the red
trunks the challenger jim beam!
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 06 Aug 2007 23:10:27
From: Steven S
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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> In the blue trunks we have the champion Jobst Brandt, and in the red
> trunks the challenger jim beam!
>
Ok I guess that point is debatable but it seems moot. Of all the new rims
I've looked at none seem to be annodized anymore.
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Date: 06 Aug 2007 21:40:25
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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Steven S wrote:
>> In the blue trunks we have the champion Jobst Brandt, and in the red
>> trunks the challenger jim beam!
>>
>
> Ok I guess that point is debatable but it seems moot. Of all the new rims
> I've looked at none seem to be annodized anymore.
>
>
bet you they are! color is not an indicator.
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Date: 06 Aug 2007 21:24:03
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 23:10:27 -0500, Steven S wrote:
>> In the blue trunks we have the champion Jobst Brandt, and in the red
>> trunks the challenger jim beam!
>>
>
> Ok I guess that point is debatable but it seems moot. Of all the new rims
> I've looked at none seem to be annodized anymore.
just order some mavic ksyriums and stop fucking around, retard
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Date: 06 Aug 2007 11:26:46
From:
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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> The bike has black annodized Wolber GTX rims. The erd I looked up was
> 613. It is a standard 32 3X with Shimano 105 1055 series hubs.
Hey those Suns cr-18 have an erd of 612 should be good replacement and
only around $30 a piece. The only thing I need to worry about is the
handedness of the spoke holes I guess.
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Date: 06 Aug 2007 11:26:35
From:
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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> The bike has black annodized Wolber GTX rims. The erd I looked up was
> 613. It is a standard 32 3X with Shimano 105 1055 series hubs.
Hey those Suns cr-18 have an erd of 612 should be good replacement and
only around $30 a piece. The only thing I need to worry about is the
handedness of the spoke holes I guess.
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Date: 06 Aug 2007 10:03:28
From:
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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On Aug 6, 8:56 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Aug 6, 8:10 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 6, 8:43 am, "Steven S" <loach_lover[remove spam
>
> > tag]@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > How much additional tension is on that spoke relative to the other
> > > > drive side spokes?
>
> > > I'd say a fair ammount. I rounded the first nipple trying to true it out
> > > and had to replace it. The second one is starting to round.
>
> > > I'll probably eventually rebuild it. It is a 126mm 7 speed hub so a
> > > replacement wheel might be a problem and it's an old aluminum Trek 1400 so
> > > the dropouts really can't be widened. Plus it's really just my commuter
> > > bike I don't want to drop that much money on it.
>
> > the new rim is taped to the old rim and spokes swapped over. match the
> > airhoe and left right nipple sides.
> > get 16mm dt nipples and a Spokey wrench. lube spokes with linseed oil
> > before trueing.
>
> Use a driver from the back so you don't go nuts. Sheldon's tip of the
> philips driver with two fins almost ground off is spot on. Whatever
> spoke wrench ya want will work.
>
> What kind of rims? Didn't they come with a deeper semi aero rim house
> branded "Matrix"? An Alex R390 might be in the range, or if it's just
> a box section rim, a Sun CR-18. Shouldn't take more than an hour to
> zip up and two beers.
The bike has black annodized Wolber GTX rims. The erd I looked up was
613. It is a standard 32 3X with Shimano 105 1055 series hubs.
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Date: 06 Aug 2007 13:56:09
From: landotter
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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On Aug 6, 8:10 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Aug 6, 8:43 am, "Steven S" <loach_lover[remove spam
>
> tag]@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > How much additional tension is on that spoke relative to the other
> > > drive side spokes?
>
> > I'd say a fair ammount. I rounded the first nipple trying to true it out
> > and had to replace it. The second one is starting to round.
>
> > I'll probably eventually rebuild it. It is a 126mm 7 speed hub so a
> > replacement wheel might be a problem and it's an old aluminum Trek 1400 so
> > the dropouts really can't be widened. Plus it's really just my commuter
> > bike I don't want to drop that much money on it.
>
> the new rim is taped to the old rim and spokes swapped over. match the
> airhoe and left right nipple sides.
> get 16mm dt nipples and a Spokey wrench. lube spokes with linseed oil
> before trueing.
Use a driver from the back so you don't go nuts. Sheldon's tip of the
philips driver with two fins almost ground off is spot on. Whatever
spoke wrench ya want will work.
What kind of rims? Didn't they come with a deeper semi aero rim house
branded "Matrix"? An Alex R390 might be in the range, or if it's just
a box section rim, a Sun CR-18. Shouldn't take more than an hour to
zip up and two beers. If you want to be really fancy, you can lace the
non drive side with some fresh spokes radially with the heads out.
This will allow you to build with slightly more even tension, but not
as high tension as to threaten the hub flange.
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Date: 06 Aug 2007 13:10:04
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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On Aug 6, 8:43 am, "Steven S" <loach_lover[remove spam
tag]@hotmail.com > wrote:
> > How much additional tension is on that spoke relative to the other
> > drive side spokes?
>
> I'd say a fair ammount. I rounded the first nipple trying to true it out
> and had to replace it. The second one is starting to round.
>
> I'll probably eventually rebuild it. It is a 126mm 7 speed hub so a
> replacement wheel might be a problem and it's an old aluminum Trek 1400 so
> the dropouts really can't be widened. Plus it's really just my commuter
> bike I don't want to drop that much money on it.
the new rim is taped to the old rim and spokes swapped over. match the
airhoe and left right nipple sides.
get 16mm dt nipples and a Spokey wrench. lube spokes with linseed oil
before trueing.
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Date: 06 Aug 2007 12:33:21
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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start over.
seat nipples
mark the six spokes surrounding the bend
mark the six spokes on the rim's opposite side.
tighten the bend nipples one turn center spoke, 3/4's turn four
adjacent, half turn next two either side.
begin truing wheel.
tighten the opposite bend side spokes equally, then back off 50%.
reach approximate lateral true-assuming 3/4's nipple torque then go
back to radial true and go for a good radial true.
followig that method, a rim is self healing over time. several trues
will gradually bring the bend back in line.
if the bend does not retrue then a new rim may be in odor.
overall, substantial twisting or dropping impactis required to ruin a
quality (non french) rim
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Date: 06 Aug 2007 22:25:56
From: daveornee
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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Steven S Wrote:
> Good day all
>
> I have been truing the rear wheel on my commuter bicycle which ha
> taken a
> bit of a beating over the potholed streets of Chicago. Anyways I go
> it
> true except for one spot. a 2mm hop centered over 1 spoke. The spok
> is a
> drive side and is as tight as I can get it [nipple starting to roun
> despite
> being well lubed]. It doesn't seem to help. Is there a way to repai
> the
> rim?
How much additional tension is on that spoke relative to the othe
drive side spokes?
A 2 mm hop centered at one spokes is a very strange situation: usuall
a dip from striking a pot hole edge is the common situation.
You can try backing off the tension on all the spokes and then tr
straightening the area. As others have already stated, getting
replacement rim is the best solution. You likely can find one with th
same ERD and thus be able to reuse the hub and spokes if you want to.
Maybe the best idea is to look for a rear wheel that is wider an
sturdier so that you will have a better chance of avoiding the proble
in the future.
I have seen a lot of riders go with a wider and stronger rear whee
with a wider rear tire to improve the chances of riding through roa
hazards without damage. One of my recent favorites is Ultegra hub wit
Velocity Synergy OC rim and as wide a tire as the frame/brakes ca
safely clear
--
daveornee
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Date: 06 Aug 2007 07:43:03
From: Steven S
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
|
> How much additional tension is on that spoke relative to the other
> drive side spokes?
I'd say a fair ammount. I rounded the first nipple trying to true it out
and had to replace it. The second one is starting to round.
I'll probably eventually rebuild it. It is a 126mm 7 speed hub so a
replacement wheel might be a problem and it's an old aluminum Trek 1400 so
the dropouts really can't be widened. Plus it's really just my commuter
bike I don't want to drop that much money on it.
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Date: 06 Aug 2007 05:15:07
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 21:12:04 -0500, "Steven S" <loach_lover[remove spam
tag]@hotmail.com > wrote:
>Good day all
>
>I have been truing the rear wheel on my commuter bicycle which has taken a
>bit of a beating over the potholed streets of Chicago. Anyways I got it
>true except for one spot. a 2mm hop centered over 1 spoke. The spoke is a
>drive side and is as tight as I can get it [nipple starting to round despite
>being well lubed]. It doesn't seem to help. Is there a way to repair the
>rim?
Maybe, maybe not -- the rim is bent and needs to be forced into shape.
Adjusting spoke tension can't do that.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 05 Aug 2007 19:37:22
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
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Steven S wrote:
> Good day all
>
> I have been truing the rear wheel on my commuter bicycle which has taken a
> bit of a beating over the potholed streets of Chicago. Anyways I got it
> true except for one spot. a 2mm hop centered over 1 spoke. The spoke is a
> drive side and is as tight as I can get it [nipple starting to round despite
> being well lubed]. It doesn't seem to help. Is there a way to repair the
> rim?
>
>
there's various ways to bash it to bend it back, but often, this causes
as much damage as it's designed to fix. either live with it or replace
the rim. sheldon is a good online resource.
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Date: 05 Aug 2007 22:01:03
From: Steven S
Subject: Re: cannot get rid off hop
|
Oh well thanks. Guess I'll live with it for now and replace it over the
winter.
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote in message
news:kM-dnWrAudr_FCvbnZ2dnUVZ_rHinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> Steven S wrote:
>> Good day all
>>
>> I have been truing the rear wheel on my commuter bicycle which has taken
>> a bit of a beating over the potholed streets of Chicago. Anyways I got
>> it true except for one spot. a 2mm hop centered over 1 spoke. The spoke
>> is a drive side and is as tight as I can get it [nipple starting to round
>> despite being well lubed]. It doesn't seem to help. Is there a way to
>> repair the rim?
>
> there's various ways to bash it to bend it back, but often, this causes as
> much damage as it's designed to fix. either live with it or replace the
> rim. sheldon is a good online resource.
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