| |
Main
Date: 02 Aug 2007 16:21:44
From: SC
Subject: chainstay gouge
|
I've had my Specialized Tarmac Pro for about two months now - I was
cleaning it the other day and noticed the chainstay protector (a
carbon fiber plate) was skewed sitting about 75-deg up from the
chainstay. And right there where the plate used to be was a nice deep
gouge in the carbon. There is some grease on the plate but no damage
to it. The LBS guys say the damage is deep enough to cause structural
problems (it didn't look too deep to me, but it *is* into the carbon).
Jeez.
I took the frame back to the LBS who tried to get Specialized to
replace it based on the fact the plate came off, but Specialized said,
"Dude, takka hike!"
Everyone who has seen it sez some type of chain suck caused this but I
can't remember, for the life of me any such an episode, let alone one
that would cause a serious gouge.
In the past Specialized has warranty replaced frames that I thought
were in much better shape (a couple of the old glued carbon tube
frames that were oxiding at the joints)
My questions for the group:
Has anyone seen this problem with carbon fiber frames? Sounds like a
little chainsuck protector would be a good insurance item for owners.
Is there any appeal route from Specialized? The LBS is sending in the
frame to see if they change their mind.
Do you think the warranty should cover chain suck if the problem was
the chainstay protector came off?
I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
Thanks,
Steve
|
|
| |
Date: 24 Aug 2007 00:34:52
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
-
yeah, what would floyd say?
|
| |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 23:51:45
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
SC wrote:
>
> They concluded again that the
> frame damage would not be covered by warranty and that, furthermore,
> they would destroy the frame to prevent it from being ridden.
You didn't lease the frame from Specialized, you bought it.
Therefore, it was your property, and it was not their prerogative to
seize it without compensating you for it.
You can accept their action, but in my opinion, you don't have to. If
you considered the frame repairable, it was not their right to deny
you the opportunity to repair it. Make a stink about it, and get your
dealer involved. If they are so serious about you not getting hurt on
one of their frames, they can damn well replace it for you, if only to
cover their own asses.
Chalo
|
| | |
Date: 24 Aug 2007 18:24:21
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
Chalo Colina wrote:
> SC wrote:
>> They concluded again that the
>> frame damage would not be covered by warranty and that, furthermore,
>> they would destroy the frame to prevent it from being ridden.
>
> You didn't lease the frame from Specialized, you bought it.
> Therefore, it was your property, and it was not their prerogative to
> seize it without compensating you for it.
>
> You can accept their action, but in my opinion, you don't have to. If
> you considered the frame repairable, it was not their right to deny
> you the opportunity to repair it. Make a stink about it, and get your
> dealer involved. If they are so serious about you not getting hurt on
> one of their frames, they can damn well replace it for you, if only to
> cover their own asses.
Don't you know that corporations have the right to destroy the property
of individuals? [End Sarcasm]
I would take Specialized to small claims court if they did this to me.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 23:24:53
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
no stupid. small claims court.
by the way: Roloff's carbon fork snapped, tearing part of Roloff's
face away. Roloff is sueing: word is Roloff hit a concrete retaining
wall but sues on entering a small pothole.
|
| |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 16:17:43
From: SC
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
Thanks to everyone that contributed to this thread. The frame was
sent back to Specialized for analysis. They concluded again that the
frame damage would not be covered by warranty and that, furthermore,
they would destroy the frame to prevent it from being ridden. I did
not think the gouge was serious enough to prevent a repair but now I
will not have that chance. This really sucks...
Lesson learned: inspect that chainstay guard.
On Aug 2, 4:21 pm, SC <ste...@ditdash.com > wrote:
> I've had my Specialized Tarmac Pro for about two months now - I was
> cleaning it the other day and noticed the chainstay protector (a
> carbon fiber plate) was skewed sitting about 75-deg up from the
> chainstay. And right there where the plate used to be was a nice deepgougein the carbon. There is some grease on the plate but no damage
> to it. The LBS guys say the damage is deep enough to cause structural
> problems (it didn't look too deep to me, but it *is* into the carbon).
>
> Jeez.
>
> I took the frame back to the LBS who tried to get Specialized to
> replace it based on the fact the plate came off, but Specialized said,
> "Dude, takka hike!"
>
> Everyone who has seen it sez some type ofchainsuck caused this but I
> can't remember, for the life of me any such an episode, let alone one
> that would cause a seriousgouge.
>
> In the past Specialized has warranty replaced frames that I thought
> were in much better shape (a couple of the old glued carbon tube
> frames that were oxiding at the joints)
>
> My questions for the group:
> Has anyone seen this problem with carbon fiber frames? Sounds like a
> little chainsuck protector would be a good insurance item for owners.
>
> Is there any appeal route from Specialized? The LBS is sending in the
> frame to see if they change their mind.
>
> Do you think the warranty should coverchainsuck if the problem was
> the chainstay protector came off?
>
> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
|
| | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 19:08:45
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
> SC <ste...@ditdash.com> wrote:
>> I've had my Specialized Tarmac Pro for about two months now - I was
>> cleaning it the other day and noticed the chainstay protector (a
>> carbon fiber plate) was skewed sitting about 75-deg up from the
>> chainstay. And right there where the plate used to be was a nice deep
>> gougein the carbon. There is some grease on the plate but no damage
>> to it. The LBS guys say the damage is deep enough to cause structural
>> problems (it didn't look too deep to me, but it *is* into the carbon).
>> Jeez.
>> I took the frame back to the LBS who tried to get Specialized to
>> replace it based on the fact the plate came off, but Specialized said,
>> "Dude, takka hike!"
>> Everyone who has seen it sez some type ofchainsuck caused this but I
>> can't remember, for the life of me any such an episode, let alone one
>> that would cause a seriousgouge.
>> In the past Specialized has warranty replaced frames that I thought
>> were in much better shape (a couple of the old glued carbon tube
>> frames that were oxiding at the joints)
>> My questions for the group:
>> Has anyone seen this problem with carbon fiber frames? Sounds like a
>> little chainsuck protector would be a good insurance item for owners.
>> Is there any appeal route from Specialized? The LBS is sending in the
>> frame to see if they change their mind.
>> Do you think the warranty should coverchainsuck if the problem was
>> the chainstay protector came off?
>> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
SC wrote:
> Thanks to everyone that contributed to this thread. The frame was
> sent back to Specialized for analysis. They concluded again that the
> frame damage would not be covered by warranty and that, furthermore,
> they would destroy the frame to prevent it from being ridden. I did
> not think the gouge was serious enough to prevent a repair but now I
> will not have that chance. This really sucks...
> Lesson learned: inspect that chainstay guard.
What the hell?!?
How well did they recompense you for wrecking your frame?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| |
Date: 05 Aug 2007 15:59:12
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Aug 5, 8:28 am, D'ohBoy <peteng...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.comwrote (in part):
>
>
>
> > ...Lots of great but not expensive Ti out
> > there..
>
> >http://www.habcycles.com
> >http://www.waterfordbikes.com
> >http://www.moots.com
> >http://www.lynskeyperformance.com
>
> Uhhhh.... moots not expensive? Lynskey not expensive? Maybe with the
> dealer discount....
Moots $1000 less than some other 'premium' Tis(Serotta and 7), Lynskey
at the price of many steels, less than some aluminums($1850
starting).
>
> Now Habanero, there's a value.
>
> Waterford ain't too bad either, compared to the moots/lynskey.
$2000 for an R-33....all things are relative. >
> D'ohBoy
|
| |
Date: 05 Aug 2007 07:28:08
From: D'ohBoy
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com wrote (in part):
>
> ...Lots of great but not expensive Ti out
> there..
>
> http://www.habcycles.com
> http://www.waterfordbikes.com
> http://www.moots.com
> http://www.lynskeyperformance.com
Uhhhh.... moots not expensive? Lynskey not expensive? Maybe with the
dealer discount....
Now Habanero, there's a value.
Waterford ain't too bad either, compared to the moots/lynskey.
D'ohBoy
|
| |
Date: 05 Aug 2007 12:48:58
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Aug 4, 6:33 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
<pe...@vecchios.com > wrote:
> On Aug 2, 5:21 pm, SC <ste...@ditdash.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I've had my Specialized Tarmac Pro for about two months now - I was
> > cleaning it the other day and noticed the chainstay protector (a
> > carbon fiber plate) was skewed sitting about 75-deg up from the
> > chainstay. And right there where the plate used to be was a nice deep
> > gouge in the carbon. There is some grease on the plate but no damage
> > to it. The LBS guys say the damage is deep enough to cause structural
> > problems (it didn't look too deep to me, but it *is* into the carbon).
>
> > Jeez.
>
> > I took the frame back to the LBS who tried to get Specialized to
> > replace it based on the fact the plate came off, but Specialized said,
> > "Dude, takka hike!"
>
> > Everyone who has seen it sez some type of chain suck caused this but I
> > can't remember, for the life of me any such an episode, let alone one
> > that would cause a serious gouge.
>
> > In the past Specialized has warranty replaced frames that I thought
> > were in much better shape (a couple of the old glued carbon tube
> > frames that were oxiding at the joints)
>
> > My questions for the group:
> > Has anyone seen this problem with carbon fiber frames? Sounds like a
> > little chainsuck protector would be a good insurance item for owners.
>
> Why most have a piece of something there..like on Orbea and
> Trek...chain damage to the chainstay is a 'bad' thing.
>
>
>
> > Is there any appeal route from Specialized? The LBS is sending in the
> > frame to see if they change their mind.
>
> Unknown.
>
>
>
> > Do you think the warranty should cover chain suck if the problem was
> > the chainstay protector came off?
>
> I do.
>
>
>
> > I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
>
> Good choice or maybe titanium. Lots of great but not expensive Ti out
> there..
>
> http://www.habcycles.comhttp://www.waterfordbikes.comhttp://www.moots.comhttp://www.lynskeyperformance.com
>
>
>
> > Thanks,
> > Steve
Waterford is already making 953, stainless steel...EXPENSIVE and not
unlike jus reglar steel...
|
| | |
Date: 05 Aug 2007 11:14:02
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
> ...
> Waterford is already making 953, stainless steel...EXPENSIVE and not
> unlike jus reglar steel...
Hard to tell that Waterford is making Reynolds 953 frames by their
website: <http://www.waterfordbikes.com/site/tech/tubesets.php >.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| |
Date: 05 Aug 2007 12:48:09
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Aug 4, 6:33 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
<pe...@vecchios.com > wrote:
> On Aug 2, 5:21 pm, SC <ste...@ditdash.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I've had my Specialized Tarmac Pro for about two months now - I was
> > cleaning it the other day and noticed the chainstay protector (a
> > carbon fiber plate) was skewed sitting about 75-deg up from the
> > chainstay. And right there where the plate used to be was a nice deep
> > gouge in the carbon. There is some grease on the plate but no damage
> > to it. The LBS guys say the damage is deep enough to cause structural
> > problems (it didn't look too deep to me, but it *is* into the carbon).
>
> > Jeez.
>
> > I took the frame back to the LBS who tried to get Specialized to
> > replace it based on the fact the plate came off, but Specialized said,
> > "Dude, takka hike!"
>
> > Everyone who has seen it sez some type of chain suck caused this but I
> > can't remember, for the life of me any such an episode, let alone one
> > that would cause a serious gouge.
>
> > In the past Specialized has warranty replaced frames that I thought
> > were in much better shape (a couple of the old glued carbon tube
> > frames that were oxiding at the joints)
>
> > My questions for the group:
> > Has anyone seen this problem with carbon fiber frames? Sounds like a
> > little chainsuck protector would be a good insurance item for owners.
>
> Why most have a piece of something there..like on Orbea and
> Trek...chain damage to the chainstay is a 'bad' thing.
>
>
>
> > Is there any appeal route from Specialized? The LBS is sending in the
> > frame to see if they change their mind.
>
> Unknown.
>
>
>
> > Do you think the warranty should cover chain suck if the problem was
> > the chainstay protector came off?
>
> I do.
>
>
>
> > I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
>
> Good choice or maybe titanium. Lots of great but not expensive Ti out
> there..
>
> http://www.habcycles.comhttp://www.waterfordbikes.comhttp://www.moots.comhttp://www.lynskeyperformance.com
>
>
>
> > Thanks,
> > Steve
" I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
>
> Good choice or maybe titanium. Lots of great but not expensive Ti out
> there.
Ti AND Steel....
|
| |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 14:51:55
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Aug 4, 4:12 pm, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr > wrote:
> Dans le message denews:1186259598.719405.61360@x40g2000prg.googlegroups.c=
om,
> Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> a r=E9fl=E9chi, et=
puis a
> d=E9clar=E9 :
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 4, 2:46 pm, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr> wrote:
> >> Dans le message
> >> denews:1186250720.438207.143740@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com, Ozark
> >> Bicycle <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> a r=E9fl=E9chi, et pu=
is
> >> a d=E9clar=E9 :
>
> >>> That *is* my experience based opinion. IMO, alot of the impression
> >>> of "road buzz" or lack thereof is based on auditory "clues" as the
> >>> bike goes over the road.
>
> >> I think that stuff called sound is kind of composed of things called
> >> vibrations. Call me on it if you think I got that wrong...
>
> > If I tape some high density foam all over an aluminum frame and make
> > it nice and quiet, will it give a more comfortable ride? Will it "damp
> > vibrations" and filter out "road buzz"?
>
> > Do tell........
>
> Well, try it :-) It may not be a fun bike any longer.
> But are you saying it's road buzz not road shock that makes your bike
> uncomfortable?-
I'm saying that "road shock" and "road buzz" are different beasts,
"road shock" being at much lower frequencies. At those lower
frequencies, all frame materials are stiff enough not to be a factor,
IMO.
IIRC, all this whining about "road buzz", the horrors of chipseal,
etc., etc., began with the growth in popularity of large tubed, thin
walled aluminum frames, which have a tendency to be noisy.
|
| | |
Date: 05 Aug 2007 13:03:40
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
In article
<1186264315.682047.225720@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com >,
Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> IIRC, all this whining about "road buzz", the horrors of chipseal,
> etc., etc., began with the growth in popularity of large tubed, thin
> walled aluminum frames, which have a tendency to be noisy.
Not quite. Chip-seal roads are rough enough to
dissipate perceptible power; enough to slow you
compared to a smooth pavement.
--
Michael Press
|
| |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 21:04:59
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
small claims court, if you believe and can get an expert to state so,
that the frame is ruined, ineefective, dangerous,
BECAUSE THE SHIELD FAILED.
sue for the costs and damages in small claims, Specialized in the best
case doesn';t show up, or you settle.
its easy:
http://www.nolo.com/resource.cfm/catID/D80CF756-DBF6-432D-B625E7D1A29183D0/104/308/273/
NOLO Small claims manual try the library/ILL and go the court house to
use the West law Compter database for your state or look for Westlaw's
Jurisprudence in the library system or at the Court house.
|
| |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 13:33:18
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Aug 4, 2:46 pm, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr > wrote:
> Dans le message denews:1186250720.438207.143740@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.c=
om,
> Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> a r=E9fl=E9chi, et=
puis a
> d=E9clar=E9 :
>
> > That *is* my experience based opinion. IMO, alot of the impression of
> > "road buzz" or lack thereof is based on auditory "clues" as the bike
> > goes over the road.
>
> I think that stuff called sound is kind of composed of things called
> vibrations. Call me on it if you think I got that wrong...
>
If I tape some high density foam all over an aluminum frame and make
it nice and quiet, will it give a more comfortable ride? Will it "damp
vibrations" and filter out "road buzz"?
Do tell........
|
| | |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 23:12:34
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
Dans le message de
news:1186259598.719405.61360@x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com,
Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > a réfléchi, et puis a
déclaré :
> On Aug 4, 2:46 pm, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr> wrote:
>> Dans le message
>> denews:1186250720.438207.143740@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com, Ozark
>> Bicycle <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> a réfléchi, et puis
>> a déclaré :
>>
>>> That *is* my experience based opinion. IMO, alot of the impression
>>> of "road buzz" or lack thereof is based on auditory "clues" as the
>>> bike goes over the road.
>>
>> I think that stuff called sound is kind of composed of things called
>> vibrations. Call me on it if you think I got that wrong...
>>
>
>
> If I tape some high density foam all over an aluminum frame and make
> it nice and quiet, will it give a more comfortable ride? Will it "damp
> vibrations" and filter out "road buzz"?
>
> Do tell........
Well, try it :-) It may not be a fun bike any longer.
But are you saying it's road buzz not road shock that makes your bike
uncomfortable?
|
| |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 11:19:58
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Aug 4, 1:13 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> <snip for clarity>
>
>
>
> > CFRP sounds "dead".
For clarity: CFRP _frames_ sound "dead".
>
> <snip>
> > This from the guy who thinks plastic seatposts "absorb vibration"!!!!!
>
> those are contradictory statements dude. get to the bottom of that
> before bothering to argue on this topic again.
Yeah, ~4-6 inches of plastic seatpost will absorb plenty of vibration.
Wanna buy a bridge?
|
| |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 11:05:20
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Aug 4, 12:36 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > On Aug 4, 8:46 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> >> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> >>> On Aug 3, 10:00 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> >>>> frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> On Aug 3, 10:27 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> Joe Bernard wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Aug 3, 7:15 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Joe Bernard wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 2, 11:07 pm, Stan Cox <stanDOT...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> jim beam wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> SC wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> <snip>
> >>>>>>>>>> stay protector came off?
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Steve
> >>>>>>>>>> <Snip>
> >>>>>>>>>>> 3. a gouged steel frame will fatigue most impressively.
> >>>>>>>>>> As indeed did my Fausto Coppi. I had the chain off in the first race I
> >>>>>>>>>> did on it and dinged the stay. It lasted another 3 years till one day I
> >>>>>>>>>> started to hear a pinging noise. On investigation the stay had a crack
> >>>>>>>>>> 80% of the way around it. The only difference with steel was that Chas
> >>>>>>>>>> Roberts did a fine job of replacing the stay and the frame is still in
> >>>>>>>>>> use today as my winter hack.
> >>>>>>>>>> Stan Cox
> >>>>>>>>> This is why I don't trust carbon on bikes. It may be strong when
> >>>>>>>>> treated correctly, but, the scenes in Formula One auto racing of it
> >>>>>>>>> shattering when impacted makes me nervous.
> >>>>>>>> eh? so how does a buckled and folded steel tube impact the way in which
> >>>>>>>> you hit the pavement any differently from a failed carbon tube? [except
> >>>>>>>> that the carbon is probably stronger and more fatigue resistant and less
> >>>>>>>> likely to dump you in the first place of course.]
> >>>>>>>>> Yes, other materials can be
> >>>>>>>>> compromised as well, but, carbon doesn't seem to have much of a slowly-
> >>>>>>>>> fading curve. It's just good, or it's broke.
> >>>>>>>> not true. carbon usually cracks, creaks and groans before failure. if
> >>>>>>>> you were a construction worker standing on a plank on a high scaffold,
> >>>>>>>> would you keep standing on the plank that creaked and cracked when you
> >>>>>>>> put weight on it? simply pay attention to carbon like you would wood.
> >>>>>>>> oh, and high tensile steel doesn't have a "slowly fading curve" - it's
> >>>>>>>> usually rather abrupt.- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>>>>>> Maybe y'all are right and I'm just paranoid, and maybe I should change
> >>>>>>> the channel when Steve Matchette starts talking about "shards of
> >>>>>>> carbon fiber all over the racing surface."
> >>>>>> like /any/ bike, you need to clean, inspect, and pay close attention if
> >>>>>> anything starts strangely. especially creaking, cracking and groaning
> >>>>>> noises. other than that, enjoy the better strength/weight ratio, the
> >>>>>> better fatigue resistance and smoother ride.
> >>>>> ... and the better advertising copy! ;-)
> >>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>> you're an idiot krygowski.-
> >>> Face the facts: advertising/marketing/hype *is* a big part of the CFRP
> >>> products on the cycling market. How else to explain things like
> >>> plastic seatstays other than as a way to increase the marketability of
> >>> an otherwise very mundane aluminum frame?
> >> simple: because it improves the ride quality - cfrp attenuates some of
> >> the shock transmission.
>
> > CFRP seatstays *only*, without any kind of "suspension" element? I
> > don't think so.
>
> yes, cfrp only. you should try it some time.
>
The *only* way to do is is with two otherwise identical frames (that's
easy enough, there are many aluminum frames available with either
aluminum or plastic seatstays. Then, of course, the stays are taped
over so the rider doesn't know which is which *prior* to making a
judgement on "shock transmission".
>
>
> >> just like a carbon fork does the same at the
> >> front end.
>
> > That depends on the forks involved, doesn't it? Many of the CFRP forks
> > now on the market feel *stiffer* than a traditional steel fork. Do
> > they "sound different" going over the road? Yes. But that's not the
> > same as attenuating "shock transmission".
>
> buy/rent an accelerometer and do your own testing.
>
Have you done? If so, please do share your data.
>
>
> >> you should try this for yourself. pick your favorite steelie, then sub
> >> in different carbon forks vs. the original. i've done this with no less
> >> than _six_ carbon forks on my della santa, and carbon most definitely
> >> /does/ get rid of some of the road buzz.
>
> > Yes, they do "sound different".
>
> what's with this "sound" stuff??? i know red herrings are staple diet
> on r.b.t, but get real. do the experiment and form your own opinion
> based on experience.
That *is* my experience based opinion. IMO, alot of the impression of
"road buzz" or lack thereof is based on auditory "clues" as the bike
goes over the road. Aluminum, as currently configured, tends to be
noisy. Steel less so. CFRP sounds "dead".
> don't parrot the underinformed opinions of those
> that never get their freakin' wallet out of their freakin' armchair and
> actually /do/ this stuff.
>
>
This from the guy who thinks plastic seatposts "absorb vibration"!!!!!
|
| | |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 21:46:54
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
Dans le message de
news:1186250720.438207.143740@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > a réfléchi, et puis a
déclaré :
> That *is* my experience based opinion. IMO, alot of the impression of
> "road buzz" or lack thereof is based on auditory "clues" as the bike
> goes over the road.
I think that stuff called sound is kind of composed of things called
vibrations. Call me on it if you think I got that wrong...
--
Les faits relatés ici ne sont que pure fiction, et ne sauraient être
utilisés ou rapprochés d'une situation réelle existant ou ayant
existée
|
| | |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 11:13:20
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
<snip for clarity >
> CFRP sounds "dead".
>
<snip >
> This from the guy who thinks plastic seatposts "absorb vibration"!!!!!
those are contradictory statements dude. get to the bottom of that
before bothering to argue on this topic again.
|
| |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 07:27:48
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Aug 4, 8:46 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > On Aug 3, 10:00 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> >> frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Aug 3, 10:27 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> >>>> Joe Bernard wrote:
> >>>>> On Aug 3, 7:15 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> Joe Bernard wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Aug 2, 11:07 pm, Stan Cox <stanDOT...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> jim beam wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> SC wrote:
> >>>>>>>> <snip>
> >>>>>>>> stay protector came off?
> >>>>>>>>>> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>>> Steve
> >>>>>>>> <Snip>
> >>>>>>>>> 3. a gouged steel frame will fatigue most impressively.
> >>>>>>>> As indeed did my Fausto Coppi. I had the chain off in the first race I
> >>>>>>>> did on it and dinged the stay. It lasted another 3 years till one day I
> >>>>>>>> started to hear a pinging noise. On investigation the stay had a crack
> >>>>>>>> 80% of the way around it. The only difference with steel was that Chas
> >>>>>>>> Roberts did a fine job of replacing the stay and the frame is still in
> >>>>>>>> use today as my winter hack.
> >>>>>>>> Stan Cox
> >>>>>>> This is why I don't trust carbon on bikes. It may be strong when
> >>>>>>> treated correctly, but, the scenes in Formula One auto racing of it
> >>>>>>> shattering when impacted makes me nervous.
> >>>>>> eh? so how does a buckled and folded steel tube impact the way in which
> >>>>>> you hit the pavement any differently from a failed carbon tube? [except
> >>>>>> that the carbon is probably stronger and more fatigue resistant and less
> >>>>>> likely to dump you in the first place of course.]
> >>>>>>> Yes, other materials can be
> >>>>>>> compromised as well, but, carbon doesn't seem to have much of a slowly-
> >>>>>>> fading curve. It's just good, or it's broke.
> >>>>>> not true. carbon usually cracks, creaks and groans before failure. if
> >>>>>> you were a construction worker standing on a plank on a high scaffold,
> >>>>>> would you keep standing on the plank that creaked and cracked when you
> >>>>>> put weight on it? simply pay attention to carbon like you would wood.
> >>>>>> oh, and high tensile steel doesn't have a "slowly fading curve" - it's
> >>>>>> usually rather abrupt.- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>>>> Maybe y'all are right and I'm just paranoid, and maybe I should change
> >>>>> the channel when Steve Matchette starts talking about "shards of
> >>>>> carbon fiber all over the racing surface."
> >>>> like /any/ bike, you need to clean, inspect, and pay close attention if
> >>>> anything starts strangely. especially creaking, cracking and groaning
> >>>> noises. other than that, enjoy the better strength/weight ratio, the
> >>>> better fatigue resistance and smoother ride.
> >>> ... and the better advertising copy! ;-)
> >>> - Frank Krygowski
> >> you're an idiot krygowski.-
>
> > Face the facts: advertising/marketing/hype *is* a big part of the CFRP
> > products on the cycling market. How else to explain things like
> > plastic seatstays other than as a way to increase the marketability of
> > an otherwise very mundane aluminum frame?
>
> simple: because it improves the ride quality - cfrp attenuates some of
> the shock transmission.
CFRP seatstays *only*, without any kind of "suspension" element? I
don't think so.
> just like a carbon fork does the same at the
> front end.
That depends on the forks involved, doesn't it? Many of the CFRP forks
now on the market feel *stiffer* than a traditional steel fork. Do
they "sound different" going over the road? Yes. But that's not the
same as attenuating "shock transmission".
>
> you should try this for yourself. pick your favorite steelie, then sub
> in different carbon forks vs. the original. i've done this with no less
> than _six_ carbon forks on my della santa, and carbon most definitely
> /does/ get rid of some of the road buzz.
Yes, they do "sound different".
> for this experiment, it's
> important you use a bike you're familiar with and keep all other
> componentry the same - it eliminates other variables.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
|
| | |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 10:36:32
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> On Aug 4, 8:46 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>>> On Aug 3, 10:00 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>> frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Aug 3, 10:27 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 7:15 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Aug 2, 11:07 pm, Stan Cox <stanDOT...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> SC wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>> stay protector came off?
>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>>> <Snip>
>>>>>>>>>>> 3. a gouged steel frame will fatigue most impressively.
>>>>>>>>>> As indeed did my Fausto Coppi. I had the chain off in the first race I
>>>>>>>>>> did on it and dinged the stay. It lasted another 3 years till one day I
>>>>>>>>>> started to hear a pinging noise. On investigation the stay had a crack
>>>>>>>>>> 80% of the way around it. The only difference with steel was that Chas
>>>>>>>>>> Roberts did a fine job of replacing the stay and the frame is still in
>>>>>>>>>> use today as my winter hack.
>>>>>>>>>> Stan Cox
>>>>>>>>> This is why I don't trust carbon on bikes. It may be strong when
>>>>>>>>> treated correctly, but, the scenes in Formula One auto racing of it
>>>>>>>>> shattering when impacted makes me nervous.
>>>>>>>> eh? so how does a buckled and folded steel tube impact the way in which
>>>>>>>> you hit the pavement any differently from a failed carbon tube? [except
>>>>>>>> that the carbon is probably stronger and more fatigue resistant and less
>>>>>>>> likely to dump you in the first place of course.]
>>>>>>>>> Yes, other materials can be
>>>>>>>>> compromised as well, but, carbon doesn't seem to have much of a slowly-
>>>>>>>>> fading curve. It's just good, or it's broke.
>>>>>>>> not true. carbon usually cracks, creaks and groans before failure. if
>>>>>>>> you were a construction worker standing on a plank on a high scaffold,
>>>>>>>> would you keep standing on the plank that creaked and cracked when you
>>>>>>>> put weight on it? simply pay attention to carbon like you would wood.
>>>>>>>> oh, and high tensile steel doesn't have a "slowly fading curve" - it's
>>>>>>>> usually rather abrupt.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>>> Maybe y'all are right and I'm just paranoid, and maybe I should change
>>>>>>> the channel when Steve Matchette starts talking about "shards of
>>>>>>> carbon fiber all over the racing surface."
>>>>>> like /any/ bike, you need to clean, inspect, and pay close attention if
>>>>>> anything starts strangely. especially creaking, cracking and groaning
>>>>>> noises. other than that, enjoy the better strength/weight ratio, the
>>>>>> better fatigue resistance and smoother ride.
>>>>> ... and the better advertising copy! ;-)
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>> you're an idiot krygowski.-
>>> Face the facts: advertising/marketing/hype *is* a big part of the CFRP
>>> products on the cycling market. How else to explain things like
>>> plastic seatstays other than as a way to increase the marketability of
>>> an otherwise very mundane aluminum frame?
>> simple: because it improves the ride quality - cfrp attenuates some of
>> the shock transmission.
>
> CFRP seatstays *only*, without any kind of "suspension" element? I
> don't think so.
yes, cfrp only. you should try it some time.
>
>
>> just like a carbon fork does the same at the
>> front end.
>
> That depends on the forks involved, doesn't it? Many of the CFRP forks
> now on the market feel *stiffer* than a traditional steel fork. Do
> they "sound different" going over the road? Yes. But that's not the
> same as attenuating "shock transmission".
buy/rent an accelerometer and do your own testing.
>
>
>> you should try this for yourself. pick your favorite steelie, then sub
>> in different carbon forks vs. the original. i've done this with no less
>> than _six_ carbon forks on my della santa, and carbon most definitely
>> /does/ get rid of some of the road buzz.
>
> Yes, they do "sound different".
what's with this "sound" stuff??? i know red herrings are staple diet
on r.b.t, but get real. do the experiment and form your own opinion
based on experience. don't parrot the underinformed opinions of those
that never get their freakin' wallet out of their freakin' armchair and
actually /do/ this stuff.
>
>
>> for this experiment, it's
>> important you use a bike you're familiar with and keep all other
>> componentry the same - it eliminates other variables.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>
|
| | | |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 12:50:06
From: fuck off, dumbass
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 10:36:32 -0700, jim beam wrote:
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>> On Aug 4, 8:46 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>>>> On Aug 3, 10:00 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>> frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Aug 3, 10:27 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 7:15 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 2, 11:07 pm, Stan Cox <stanDOT...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> SC wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>>> stay protector came off?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>>>> <Snip>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. a gouged steel frame will fatigue most impressively.
>>>>>>>>>>> As indeed did my Fausto Coppi. I had the chain off in the first race I
>>>>>>>>>>> did on it and dinged the stay. It lasted another 3 years till one day I
>>>>>>>>>>> started to hear a pinging noise. On investigation the stay had a crack
>>>>>>>>>>> 80% of the way around it. The only difference with steel was that Chas
>>>>>>>>>>> Roberts did a fine job of replacing the stay and the frame is still in
>>>>>>>>>>> use today as my winter hack.
>>>>>>>>>>> Stan Cox
>>>>>>>>>> This is why I don't trust carbon on bikes. It may be strong when
>>>>>>>>>> treated correctly, but, the scenes in Formula One auto racing of it
>>>>>>>>>> shattering when impacted makes me nervous.
>>>>>>>>> eh? so how does a buckled and folded steel tube impact the way in which
>>>>>>>>> you hit the pavement any differently from a failed carbon tube? [except
>>>>>>>>> that the carbon is probably stronger and more fatigue resistant and less
>>>>>>>>> likely to dump you in the first place of course.]
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, other materials can be
>>>>>>>>>> compromised as well, but, carbon doesn't seem to have much of a slowly-
>>>>>>>>>> fading curve. It's just good, or it's broke.
>>>>>>>>> not true. carbon usually cracks, creaks and groans before failure. if
>>>>>>>>> you were a construction worker standing on a plank on a high scaffold,
>>>>>>>>> would you keep standing on the plank that creaked and cracked when you
>>>>>>>>> put weight on it? simply pay attention to carbon like you would wood.
>>>>>>>>> oh, and high tensile steel doesn't have a "slowly fading curve" - it's
>>>>>>>>> usually rather abrupt.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>>>> Maybe y'all are right and I'm just paranoid, and maybe I should change
>>>>>>>> the channel when Steve Matchette starts talking about "shards of
>>>>>>>> carbon fiber all over the racing surface."
>>>>>>> like /any/ bike, you need to clean, inspect, and pay close attention if
>>>>>>> anything starts strangely. especially creaking, cracking and groaning
>>>>>>> noises. other than that, enjoy the better strength/weight ratio, the
>>>>>>> better fatigue resistance and smoother ride.
>>>>>> ... and the better advertising copy! ;-)
>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>> you're an idiot krygowski.-
>>>> Face the facts: advertising/marketing/hype *is* a big part of the CFRP
>>>> products on the cycling market. How else to explain things like
>>>> plastic seatstays other than as a way to increase the marketability of
>>>> an otherwise very mundane aluminum frame?
>>> simple: because it improves the ride quality - cfrp attenuates some of
>>> the shock transmission.
>>
>> CFRP seatstays *only*, without any kind of "suspension" element? I
>> don't think so.
>
> yes, cfrp only. you should try it some time.
>
>>
>>
>>> just like a carbon fork does the same at the
>>> front end.
>>
>> That depends on the forks involved, doesn't it? Many of the CFRP forks
>> now on the market feel *stiffer* than a traditional steel fork. Do
>> they "sound different" going over the road? Yes. But that's not the
>> same as attenuating "shock transmission".
>
> buy/rent an accelerometer and do your own testing.
>
>>
>>
>>> you should try this for yourself. pick your favorite steelie, then sub
>>> in different carbon forks vs. the original. i've done this with no less
>>> than _six_ carbon forks on my della santa, and carbon most definitely
>>> /does/ get rid of some of the road buzz.
>>
>> Yes, they do "sound different".
>
> what's with this "sound" stuff??? i know red herrings are staple diet
> on r.b.t, but get real. do the experiment and form your own opinion
> based on experience. don't parrot the underinformed opinions of those
> that never get their freakin' wallet out of their freakin' armchair and
> actually /do/ this stuff.
>
There's a difference between anecdotas and double blind tests
You must be a full-on fucking retard
|
| |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 06:41:58
From: Joe Riel
Subject: Re: N-Gear Jump Stop
|
lightninglad <wordy@internode.on.net > writes:
> N-Gear Jump Stop - 30 grams
>
> This little fellah absolutely prevents the chain from jamming down the
> inside.
>
> http://n-gear.com/orders.html
Until it doesn't. On one occasion (after several years of use) I've
had the chain manage to jam itself past the device. To get it
repositioned I had to remove the stop, a nuisance on the road. Since
then I've left the device off and have had only a couple of misshifts
where the chain was thrown off---those were easily corrected while
riding, just shift to the big ring and slowly pedal.
--
Joe Riel
|
| |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 12:36:48
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Subject: Re: N-Gear Jump Stop
|
On Aug 4, 3:30 am, lightninglad <wo...@internode.on.net > wrote:
> N-Gear Jump Stop - 30 grams
>
> This little fellah absolutely prevents the chain from jamming down the
> inside.
>
> http://n-gear.com/orders.html
BUT won't prevent chainsuck..like when the chain gets grabbed on the
back, lower part of the rings and travels up the chainring to the
chainstay, where it can gouge the stay. Not the same thing as tossing
the chain off the small ring.
|
| |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 12:33:43
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Aug 2, 5:21 pm, SC <ste...@ditdash.com > wrote:
> I've had my Specialized Tarmac Pro for about two months now - I was
> cleaning it the other day and noticed the chainstay protector (a
> carbon fiber plate) was skewed sitting about 75-deg up from the
> chainstay. And right there where the plate used to be was a nice deep
> gouge in the carbon. There is some grease on the plate but no damage
> to it. The LBS guys say the damage is deep enough to cause structural
> problems (it didn't look too deep to me, but it *is* into the carbon).
>
> Jeez.
>
> I took the frame back to the LBS who tried to get Specialized to
> replace it based on the fact the plate came off, but Specialized said,
> "Dude, takka hike!"
>
> Everyone who has seen it sez some type of chain suck caused this but I
> can't remember, for the life of me any such an episode, let alone one
> that would cause a serious gouge.
>
> In the past Specialized has warranty replaced frames that I thought
> were in much better shape (a couple of the old glued carbon tube
> frames that were oxiding at the joints)
>
> My questions for the group:
> Has anyone seen this problem with carbon fiber frames? Sounds like a
> little chainsuck protector would be a good insurance item for owners.
Why most have a piece of something there..like on Orbea and
Trek...chain damage to the chainstay is a 'bad' thing.
>
> Is there any appeal route from Specialized? The LBS is sending in the
> frame to see if they change their mind.
Unknown.
>
> Do you think the warranty should cover chain suck if the problem was
> the chainstay protector came off?
I do.
>
> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
Good choice or maybe titanium. Lots of great but not expensive Ti out
there..
http://www.habcycles.com
http://www.waterfordbikes.com
http://www.moots.com
http://www.lynskeyperformance.com
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
|
| | |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 08:51:06
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
> ...
> Good choice or maybe titanium. Lots of great but not expensive Ti out
> there..
>
> http://www.habcycles.com
> http://www.waterfordbikes.com
> http://www.moots.com
> http://www.lynskeyperformance.com
Waterford is making titanium frames - it doesn't seem to be on their
website?
I wonder if Waterford will make a Reynolds 953 [1] frame at some point?
[1] <http://reynoldscycles.co.uk/steel953.html >.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | | |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 07:00:15
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
>> ...
>> Good choice or maybe titanium. Lots of great but not expensive Ti out
>> there..
>>
>> http://www.habcycles.com
>> http://www.waterfordbikes.com
>> http://www.moots.com
>> http://www.lynskeyperformance.com
>
> Waterford is making titanium frames - it doesn't seem to be on their
> website?
>
> I wonder if Waterford will make a Reynolds 953 [1] frame at some point?
>
> [1] <http://reynoldscycles.co.uk/steel953.html>.
>
what people don't understand is that although that tube is strong, its
thinness means it's also very elastic. elastic means noodliness and
shimmy. if you want exotic materials, better to go with something that
has a higher specific modulus like 6.4 ti or lithium aluminum. but good
old carbon beats both those so why bother?
|
| | |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 06:48:54
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com wrote:
> On Aug 2, 5:21 pm, SC <ste...@ditdash.com> wrote:
>> I've had my Specialized Tarmac Pro for about two months now - I was
>> cleaning it the other day and noticed the chainstay protector (a
>> carbon fiber plate) was skewed sitting about 75-deg up from the
>> chainstay. And right there where the plate used to be was a nice deep
>> gouge in the carbon. There is some grease on the plate but no damage
>> to it. The LBS guys say the damage is deep enough to cause structural
>> problems (it didn't look too deep to me, but it *is* into the carbon).
>>
>> Jeez.
>>
>> I took the frame back to the LBS who tried to get Specialized to
>> replace it based on the fact the plate came off, but Specialized said,
>> "Dude, takka hike!"
>>
>> Everyone who has seen it sez some type of chain suck caused this but I
>> can't remember, for the life of me any such an episode, let alone one
>> that would cause a serious gouge.
>>
>> In the past Specialized has warranty replaced frames that I thought
>> were in much better shape (a couple of the old glued carbon tube
>> frames that were oxiding at the joints)
>>
>> My questions for the group:
>> Has anyone seen this problem with carbon fiber frames? Sounds like a
>> little chainsuck protector would be a good insurance item for owners.
>
> Why most have a piece of something there..like on Orbea and
> Trek...chain damage to the chainstay is a 'bad' thing.
>
>> Is there any appeal route from Specialized? The LBS is sending in the
>> frame to see if they change their mind.
>
> Unknown.
>> Do you think the warranty should cover chain suck if the problem was
>> the chainstay protector came off?
>
> I do.
>> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
>
> Good choice or maybe titanium. Lots of great but not expensive Ti out
> there..
>
> http://www.habcycles.com
> http://www.waterfordbikes.com
> http://www.moots.com
> http://www.lynskeyperformance.com
>> Thanks,
>> Steve
>
>
but ti is just as susceptible to the effects of chain gouge as any other
material - and it fatigues when gouged.
|
| |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 04:45:13
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Aug 3, 10:00 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Aug 3, 10:27 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> >> Joe Bernard wrote:
> >>> On Aug 3, 7:15 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> >>>> Joe Bernard wrote:
> >>>>> On Aug 2, 11:07 pm, Stan Cox <stanDOT...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> jim beam wrote:
> >>>>>>> SC wrote:
> >>>>>> <snip>
> >>>>>> stay protector came off?
> >>>>>>>> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
> >>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>> Steve
> >>>>>> <Snip>
> >>>>>>> 3. a gouged steel frame will fatigue most impressively.
> >>>>>> As indeed did my Fausto Coppi. I had the chain off in the first race I
> >>>>>> did on it and dinged the stay. It lasted another 3 years till one day I
> >>>>>> started to hear a pinging noise. On investigation the stay had a crack
> >>>>>> 80% of the way around it. The only difference with steel was that Chas
> >>>>>> Roberts did a fine job of replacing the stay and the frame is still in
> >>>>>> use today as my winter hack.
> >>>>>> Stan Cox
> >>>>> This is why I don't trust carbon on bikes. It may be strong when
> >>>>> treated correctly, but, the scenes in Formula One auto racing of it
> >>>>> shattering when impacted makes me nervous.
> >>>> eh? so how does a buckled and folded steel tube impact the way in which
> >>>> you hit the pavement any differently from a failed carbon tube? [except
> >>>> that the carbon is probably stronger and more fatigue resistant and less
> >>>> likely to dump you in the first place of course.]
> >>>>> Yes, other materials can be
> >>>>> compromised as well, but, carbon doesn't seem to have much of a slowly-
> >>>>> fading curve. It's just good, or it's broke.
> >>>> not true. carbon usually cracks, creaks and groans before failure. if
> >>>> you were a construction worker standing on a plank on a high scaffold,
> >>>> would you keep standing on the plank that creaked and cracked when you
> >>>> put weight on it? simply pay attention to carbon like you would wood.
> >>>> oh, and high tensile steel doesn't have a "slowly fading curve" - it's
> >>>> usually rather abrupt.- Hide quoted text -
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>> Maybe y'all are right and I'm just paranoid, and maybe I should change
> >>> the channel when Steve Matchette starts talking about "shards of
> >>> carbon fiber all over the racing surface."
> >> like /any/ bike, you need to clean, inspect, and pay close attention if
> >> anything starts strangely. especially creaking, cracking and groaning
> >> noises. other than that, enjoy the better strength/weight ratio, the
> >> better fatigue resistance and smoother ride.
>
> > ... and the better advertising copy! ;-)
>
> > - Frank Krygowski
>
> you're an idiot krygowski.-
Face the facts: advertising/marketing/hype *is* a big part of the CFRP
products on the cycling market. How else to explain things like
plastic seatstays other than as a way to increase the marketability of
an otherwise very mundane aluminum frame?
|
| | |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 06:46:43
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> On Aug 3, 10:00 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Aug 3, 10:27 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>> Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>>> On Aug 3, 7:15 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>>>>> On Aug 2, 11:07 pm, Stan Cox <stanDOT...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> SC wrote:
>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>> stay protector came off?
>>>>>>>>>> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>> <Snip>
>>>>>>>>> 3. a gouged steel frame will fatigue most impressively.
>>>>>>>> As indeed did my Fausto Coppi. I had the chain off in the first race I
>>>>>>>> did on it and dinged the stay. It lasted another 3 years till one day I
>>>>>>>> started to hear a pinging noise. On investigation the stay had a crack
>>>>>>>> 80% of the way around it. The only difference with steel was that Chas
>>>>>>>> Roberts did a fine job of replacing the stay and the frame is still in
>>>>>>>> use today as my winter hack.
>>>>>>>> Stan Cox
>>>>>>> This is why I don't trust carbon on bikes. It may be strong when
>>>>>>> treated correctly, but, the scenes in Formula One auto racing of it
>>>>>>> shattering when impacted makes me nervous.
>>>>>> eh? so how does a buckled and folded steel tube impact the way in which
>>>>>> you hit the pavement any differently from a failed carbon tube? [except
>>>>>> that the carbon is probably stronger and more fatigue resistant and less
>>>>>> likely to dump you in the first place of course.]
>>>>>>> Yes, other materials can be
>>>>>>> compromised as well, but, carbon doesn't seem to have much of a slowly-
>>>>>>> fading curve. It's just good, or it's broke.
>>>>>> not true. carbon usually cracks, creaks and groans before failure. if
>>>>>> you were a construction worker standing on a plank on a high scaffold,
>>>>>> would you keep standing on the plank that creaked and cracked when you
>>>>>> put weight on it? simply pay attention to carbon like you would wood.
>>>>>> oh, and high tensile steel doesn't have a "slowly fading curve" - it's
>>>>>> usually rather abrupt.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>> Maybe y'all are right and I'm just paranoid, and maybe I should change
>>>>> the channel when Steve Matchette starts talking about "shards of
>>>>> carbon fiber all over the racing surface."
>>>> like /any/ bike, you need to clean, inspect, and pay close attention if
>>>> anything starts strangely. especially creaking, cracking and groaning
>>>> noises. other than that, enjoy the better strength/weight ratio, the
>>>> better fatigue resistance and smoother ride.
>>> ... and the better advertising copy! ;-)
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>> you're an idiot krygowski.-
>
> Face the facts: advertising/marketing/hype *is* a big part of the CFRP
> products on the cycling market. How else to explain things like
> plastic seatstays other than as a way to increase the marketability of
> an otherwise very mundane aluminum frame?
>
simple: because it improves the ride quality - cfrp attenuates some of
the shock transmission. just like a carbon fork does the same at the
front end.
you should try this for yourself. pick your favorite steelie, then sub
in different carbon forks vs. the original. i've done this with no less
than _six_ carbon forks on my della santa, and carbon most definitely
/does/ get rid of some of the road buzz. for this experiment, it's
important you use a bike you're familiar with and keep all other
componentry the same - it eliminates other variables.
|
| |
Date: 04 Aug 2007 02:30:35
From: lightninglad
Subject: N-Gear Jump Stop
|
N-Gear Jump Stop - 30 grams
This little fellah absolutely prevents the chain from jamming down the
inside.
http://n-gear.com/orders.html
|
| |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 19:46:52
From: Nate Knutson
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Aug 2, 4:21 pm, SC <ste...@ditdash.com > wrote:
> I've had my Specialized Tarmac Pro for about two months now - I was
> cleaning it the other day and noticed the chainstay protector (a
> carbon fiber plate) was skewed sitting about 75-deg up from the
> chainstay. And right there where the plate used to be was a nice deep
> gouge in the carbon. There is some grease on the plate but no damage
> to it. The LBS guys say the damage is deep enough to cause structural
> problems (it didn't look too deep to me, but it *is* into the carbon).
>
> Jeez.
>
> I took the frame back to the LBS who tried to get Specialized to
> replace it based on the fact the plate came off, but Specialized said,
> "Dude, takka hike!"
>
> Everyone who has seen it sez some type of chain suck caused this but I
> can't remember, for the life of me any such an episode, let alone one
> that would cause a serious gouge.
>
> In the past Specialized has warranty replaced frames that I thought
> were in much better shape (a couple of the old glued carbon tube
> frames that were oxiding at the joints)
>
> My questions for the group:
> Has anyone seen this problem with carbon fiber frames? Sounds like a
> little chainsuck protector would be a good insurance item for owners.
>
> Is there any appeal route from Specialized? The LBS is sending in the
> frame to see if they change their mind.
>
> Do you think the warranty should cover chain suck if the problem was
> the chainstay protector came off?
>
> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
You might look at Calfee's repair service: http://www.calfeedesign.com/howtosendrepair.htm
. They seem to know their stuff pretty darn well.
|
| |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 19:40:35
From:
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Aug 3, 8:24 am, D'ohBoy <peteng...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Aug 3, 2:42 am, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 2, 11:07 pm, Stan Cox <stanDOT...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > > jim beam wrote:
> > > > SC wrote:
>
> > > <snip>
>
> > > stay protector came off?
>
> > > >> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Steve
>
> > > <Snip>
> > > > 3. a gouged steel frame will fatigue most impressively.
>
> > > As indeed did my Fausto Coppi. I had the chain off in the first race I
> > > did on it and dinged the stay. It lasted another 3 years till one day I
> > > started to hear a pinging noise. On investigation the stay had a crack
> > > 80% of the way around it. The only difference with steel was that Chas
> > > Roberts did a fine job of replacing the stay and the frame is still in
> > > use today as my winter hack.
>
> > > Stan Cox
>
> > This is why I don't trust carbon on bikes. It may be strong when
> > treated correctly, but, the scenes in Formula One auto racing of it
> > shattering when impacted makes me nervous. Yes, other materials can be
> > compromised as well, but, carbon doesn't seem to have much of a slowly-
> > fading curve. It's just good, or it's broke.
>
> Lance Armstrong rode his CARBON-framed bike up Luz Ardiden with a
> cracked chainstay during the TdF. As I recall, he won the stage
> too.
>
> Sounds like it ain't 'just good, or it's broke'.
Racing in a world class event is different than any of our riding.
His benefit from pushing on obviously outweighed the detriment of
increased risk. And even so, I'm sure he didn't use the same bike in
the next stage. That is, I'm sure he and the team mechanics agreed:
"It _is_ broke."
Again, racing in a world class event is different than any of our
riding. Even though some of us pretend otherwise. And even though
that pretending sells a lot of very fancy equipment.
- Frank Krygowski
|
| |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 19:35:52
From:
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Aug 3, 10:27 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> Joe Bernard wrote:
> > On Aug 3, 7:15 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> >> Joe Bernard wrote:
> >>> On Aug 2, 11:07 pm, Stan Cox <stanDOT...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >>>> jim beam wrote:
> >>>>> SC wrote:
> >>>> <snip>
> >>>> stay protector came off?
> >>>>>> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>> Steve
> >>>> <Snip>
> >>>>> 3. a gouged steel frame will fatigue most impressively.
> >>>> As indeed did my Fausto Coppi. I had the chain off in the first race I
> >>>> did on it and dinged the stay. It lasted another 3 years till one day I
> >>>> started to hear a pinging noise. On investigation the stay had a crack
> >>>> 80% of the way around it. The only difference with steel was that Chas
> >>>> Roberts did a fine job of replacing the stay and the frame is still in
> >>>> use today as my winter hack.
> >>>> Stan Cox
> >>> This is why I don't trust carbon on bikes. It may be strong when
> >>> treated correctly, but, the scenes in Formula One auto racing of it
> >>> shattering when impacted makes me nervous.
> >> eh? so how does a buckled and folded steel tube impact the way in which
> >> you hit the pavement any differently from a failed carbon tube? [except
> >> that the carbon is probably stronger and more fatigue resistant and less
> >> likely to dump you in the first place of course.]
>
> >>> Yes, other materials can be
> >>> compromised as well, but, carbon doesn't seem to have much of a slowly-
> >>> fading curve. It's just good, or it's broke.
> >> not true. carbon usually cracks, creaks and groans before failure. if
> >> you were a construction worker standing on a plank on a high scaffold,
> >> would you keep standing on the plank that creaked and cracked when you
> >> put weight on it? simply pay attention to carbon like you would wood.
>
> >> oh, and high tensile steel doesn't have a "slowly fading curve" - it's
> >> usually rather abrupt.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Maybe y'all are right and I'm just paranoid, and maybe I should change
> > the channel when Steve Matchette starts talking about "shards of
> > carbon fiber all over the racing surface."
>
> like /any/ bike, you need to clean, inspect, and pay close attention if
> anything starts strangely. especially creaking, cracking and groaning
> noises. other than that, enjoy the better strength/weight ratio, the
> better fatigue resistance and smoother ride.
... and the better advertising copy! ;-)
- Frank Krygowski
|
| | |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 20:00:55
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
> On Aug 3, 10:27 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> Joe Bernard wrote:
>>> On Aug 3, 7:15 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>> Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>>> On Aug 2, 11:07 pm, Stan Cox <stanDOT...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>>>>> SC wrote:
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>> stay protector came off?
>>>>>>>> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>> <Snip>
>>>>>>> 3. a gouged steel frame will fatigue most impressively.
>>>>>> As indeed did my Fausto Coppi. I had the chain off in the first race I
>>>>>> did on it and dinged the stay. It lasted another 3 years till one day I
>>>>>> started to hear a pinging noise. On investigation the stay had a crack
>>>>>> 80% of the way around it. The only difference with steel was that Chas
>>>>>> Roberts did a fine job of replacing the stay and the frame is still in
>>>>>> use today as my winter hack.
>>>>>> Stan Cox
>>>>> This is why I don't trust carbon on bikes. It may be strong when
>>>>> treated correctly, but, the scenes in Formula One auto racing of it
>>>>> shattering when impacted makes me nervous.
>>>> eh? so how does a buckled and folded steel tube impact the way in which
>>>> you hit the pavement any differently from a failed carbon tube? [except
>>>> that the carbon is probably stronger and more fatigue resistant and less
>>>> likely to dump you in the first place of course.]
>>>>> Yes, other materials can be
>>>>> compromised as well, but, carbon doesn't seem to have much of a slowly-
>>>>> fading curve. It's just good, or it's broke.
>>>> not true. carbon usually cracks, creaks and groans before failure. if
>>>> you were a construction worker standing on a plank on a high scaffold,
>>>> would you keep standing on the plank that creaked and cracked when you
>>>> put weight on it? simply pay attention to carbon like you would wood.
>>>> oh, and high tensile steel doesn't have a "slowly fading curve" - it's
>>>> usually rather abrupt.- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> Maybe y'all are right and I'm just paranoid, and maybe I should change
>>> the channel when Steve Matchette starts talking about "shards of
>>> carbon fiber all over the racing surface."
>> like /any/ bike, you need to clean, inspect, and pay close attention if
>> anything starts strangely. especially creaking, cracking and groaning
>> noises. other than that, enjoy the better strength/weight ratio, the
>> better fatigue resistance and smoother ride.
>
> ... and the better advertising copy! ;-)
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>
you're an idiot krygowski.
|
| |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 09:37:23
From: Joe Bernard
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Aug 3, 7:15 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> Joe Bernard wrote:
> > On Aug 2, 11:07 pm, Stan Cox <stanDOT...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >> jim beam wrote:
> >>> SC wrote:
> >> <snip>
>
> >> stay protector came off?
>
> >>>> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Steve
> >> <Snip>
> >>> 3. a gouged steel frame will fatigue most impressively.
> >> As indeed did my Fausto Coppi. I had the chain off in the first race I
> >> did on it and dinged the stay. It lasted another 3 years till one day I
> >> started to hear a pinging noise. On investigation the stay had a crack
> >> 80% of the way around it. The only difference with steel was that Chas
> >> Roberts did a fine job of replacing the stay and the frame is still in
> >> use today as my winter hack.
>
> >> Stan Cox
>
> > This is why I don't trust carbon on bikes. It may be strong when
> > treated correctly, but, the scenes in Formula One auto racing of it
> > shattering when impacted makes me nervous.
>
> eh? so how does a buckled and folded steel tube impact the way in which
> you hit the pavement any differently from a failed carbon tube? [except
> that the carbon is probably stronger and more fatigue resistant and less
> likely to dump you in the first place of course.]
>
> > Yes, other materials can be
> > compromised as well, but, carbon doesn't seem to have much of a slowly-
> > fading curve. It's just good, or it's broke.
>
> not true. carbon usually cracks, creaks and groans before failure. if
> you were a construction worker standing on a plank on a high scaffold,
> would you keep standing on the plank that creaked and cracked when you
> put weight on it? simply pay attention to carbon like you would wood.
>
> oh, and high tensile steel doesn't have a "slowly fading curve" - it's
> usually rather abrupt.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Maybe y'all are right and I'm just paranoid, and maybe I should change
the channel when Steve Matchette starts talking about "shards of
carbon fiber all over the racing surface."
|
| | |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 19:27:55
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
Joe Bernard wrote:
> On Aug 3, 7:15 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> Joe Bernard wrote:
>>> On Aug 2, 11:07 pm, Stan Cox <stanDOT...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>>> SC wrote:
>>>> <snip>
>>>> stay protector came off?
>>>>>> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Steve
>>>> <Snip>
>>>>> 3. a gouged steel frame will fatigue most impressively.
>>>> As indeed did my Fausto Coppi. I had the chain off in the first race I
>>>> did on it and dinged the stay. It lasted another 3 years till one day I
>>>> started to hear a pinging noise. On investigation the stay had a crack
>>>> 80% of the way around it. The only difference with steel was that Chas
>>>> Roberts did a fine job of replacing the stay and the frame is still in
>>>> use today as my winter hack.
>>>> Stan Cox
>>> This is why I don't trust carbon on bikes. It may be strong when
>>> treated correctly, but, the scenes in Formula One auto racing of it
>>> shattering when impacted makes me nervous.
>> eh? so how does a buckled and folded steel tube impact the way in which
>> you hit the pavement any differently from a failed carbon tube? [except
>> that the carbon is probably stronger and more fatigue resistant and less
>> likely to dump you in the first place of course.]
>>
>>> Yes, other materials can be
>>> compromised as well, but, carbon doesn't seem to have much of a slowly-
>>> fading curve. It's just good, or it's broke.
>> not true. carbon usually cracks, creaks and groans before failure. if
>> you were a construction worker standing on a plank on a high scaffold,
>> would you keep standing on the plank that creaked and cracked when you
>> put weight on it? simply pay attention to carbon like you would wood.
>>
>> oh, and high tensile steel doesn't have a "slowly fading curve" - it's
>> usually rather abrupt.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Maybe y'all are right and I'm just paranoid, and maybe I should change
> the channel when Steve Matchette starts talking about "shards of
> carbon fiber all over the racing surface."
>
like /any/ bike, you need to clean, inspect, and pay close attention if
anything starts strangely. especially creaking, cracking and groaning
noises. other than that, enjoy the better strength/weight ratio, the
better fatigue resistance and smoother ride.
|
| | | |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 21:44:16
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
"jim beam" wrote:
>
> like /any/ bike, you need to clean, inspect, and pay close attention if
> anything starts [acting] strangely. especially creaking, cracking and groaning
> noises....
I thought that was normal cyclist behavior!
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | | | |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 20:08:28
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> "jim beam" wrote:
>>
>> like /any/ bike, you need to clean, inspect, and pay close attention
>> if anything starts [acting] strangely. especially creaking, cracking
>> and groaning noises....
>
> I thought that was normal cyclist behavior!
>
the cleaning and inspection?
|
| | | | | |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 22:21:21
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
"jim beam" wrote:
> Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>> "jim beam" wrote:
>>>
>>> like /any/ bike, you need to clean, inspect, and pay close attention
>>> if anything starts [acting] strangely. especially creaking, cracking
>>> and groaning noises....
>>
>> I thought that was normal cyclist behavior!
>>
>
> the cleaning and inspection?
No, the acting strangely and producing creaking, cracking and groaning
noises. ;)
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 05:24:49
From: D'ohBoy
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Aug 3, 2:42 am, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> On Aug 2, 11:07 pm, Stan Cox <stanDOT...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > jim beam wrote:
> > > SC wrote:
>
> > <snip>
>
> > stay protector came off?
>
> > >> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Steve
>
> > <Snip>
> > > 3. a gouged steel frame will fatigue most impressively.
>
> > As indeed did my Fausto Coppi. I had the chain off in the first race I
> > did on it and dinged the stay. It lasted another 3 years till one day I
> > started to hear a pinging noise. On investigation the stay had a crack
> > 80% of the way around it. The only difference with steel was that Chas
> > Roberts did a fine job of replacing the stay and the frame is still in
> > use today as my winter hack.
>
> > Stan Cox
>
> This is why I don't trust carbon on bikes. It may be strong when
> treated correctly, but, the scenes in Formula One auto racing of it
> shattering when impacted makes me nervous. Yes, other materials can be
> compromised as well, but, carbon doesn't seem to have much of a slowly-
> fading curve. It's just good, or it's broke.
Lance Armstrong rode his CARBON-framed bike up Luz Ardiden with a
cracked chainstay during the TdF. As I recall, he won the stage
too.
Sounds like it ain't 'just good, or it's broke'.
D'ohBoy
|
| |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 00:42:55
From: Joe Bernard
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Aug 2, 11:07 pm, Stan Cox <stanDOT...@ntlworld.com > wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
> > SC wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> stay protector came off?
>
>
>
> >> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Steve
>
> <Snip>
> > 3. a gouged steel frame will fatigue most impressively.
>
> As indeed did my Fausto Coppi. I had the chain off in the first race I
> did on it and dinged the stay. It lasted another 3 years till one day I
> started to hear a pinging noise. On investigation the stay had a crack
> 80% of the way around it. The only difference with steel was that Chas
> Roberts did a fine job of replacing the stay and the frame is still in
> use today as my winter hack.
>
> Stan Cox
This is why I don't trust carbon on bikes. It may be strong when
treated correctly, but, the scenes in Formula One auto racing of it
shattering when impacted makes me nervous. Yes, other materials can be
compromised as well, but, carbon doesn't seem to have much of a slowly-
fading curve. It's just good, or it's broke.
|
| | |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 07:15:20
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
Joe Bernard wrote:
> On Aug 2, 11:07 pm, Stan Cox <stanDOT...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>> SC wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>> stay protector came off?
>>
>>
>>
>>>> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Steve
>> <Snip>
>>> 3. a gouged steel frame will fatigue most impressively.
>> As indeed did my Fausto Coppi. I had the chain off in the first race I
>> did on it and dinged the stay. It lasted another 3 years till one day I
>> started to hear a pinging noise. On investigation the stay had a crack
>> 80% of the way around it. The only difference with steel was that Chas
>> Roberts did a fine job of replacing the stay and the frame is still in
>> use today as my winter hack.
>>
>> Stan Cox
>
> This is why I don't trust carbon on bikes. It may be strong when
> treated correctly, but, the scenes in Formula One auto racing of it
> shattering when impacted makes me nervous.
eh? so how does a buckled and folded steel tube impact the way in which
you hit the pavement any differently from a failed carbon tube? [except
that the carbon is probably stronger and more fatigue resistant and less
likely to dump you in the first place of course.]
> Yes, other materials can be
> compromised as well, but, carbon doesn't seem to have much of a slowly-
> fading curve. It's just good, or it's broke.
not true. carbon usually cracks, creaks and groans before failure. if
you were a construction worker standing on a plank on a high scaffold,
would you keep standing on the plank that creaked and cracked when you
put weight on it? simply pay attention to carbon like you would wood.
oh, and high tensile steel doesn't have a "slowly fading curve" - it's
usually rather abrupt.
|
| | |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 06:41:16
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 00:42:55 -0700, Joe Bernard
<josephrbernard@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
>This is why I don't trust carbon on bikes. It may be strong when
>treated correctly, but, the scenes in Formula One auto racing of it
>shattering when impacted makes me nervous. Yes, other materials can be
>compromised as well, but, carbon doesn't seem to have much of a slowly-
>fading curve. It's just good, or it's broke.
Good for you.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
| |
Date: 02 Aug 2007 23:43:36
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
Steve C. who? wrote:
> I've had my Specialized Tarmac Pro for about two months now - I was
> cleaning it the other day and noticed the chainstay protector (a
> carbon fiber plate) was skewed sitting about 75-deg up from the
> chainstay. And right there where the plate used to be was a nice deep
> gouge in the carbon. There is some grease on the plate but no damage
> to it. The LBS guys say the damage is deep enough to cause structural
> problems (it didn't look too deep to me, but it *is* into the carbon)....
Could a repair be made by wrapping a piece of appropriate carbon fiber
cloth around the stay and bonding it with an appropriate epoxy?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 19:09:01
From: dabac
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman Wrote:
>
> Could a repair be made by wrapping a piece of appropriate carbon fiber
> cloth around the stay and bonding it with an appropriate epoxy?
Sure, as long as:
A) the damage is a sufficient distance from the ends to allow a decent
overlap, 30 mm or so in both directions
B) the owner is ready to accept the weight increase of perhaps 15-30
grams for the added material
C) the owner is ready to accept the aestethic blemish of the slight
swelling and less-than-perfect surface match of the repair.
--
dabac
|
| | | |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 07:20:35
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
dabac wrote:
> Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman Wrote:
>> Could a repair be made by wrapping a piece of appropriate carbon fiber
>> cloth around the stay and bonding it with an appropriate epoxy?
>
> Sure, as long as:
> A) the damage is a sufficient distance from the ends to allow a decent
> overlap, 30 mm or so in both directions
> B) the owner is ready to accept the weight increase of perhaps 15-30
> grams for the added material
> C) the owner is ready to accept the aestethic blemish of the slight
> swelling and less-than-perfect surface match of the repair.
>
>
good point. besides, carbon weave seen on the exterior of most carbon
components is largely cosmetic. the randomly oriented stuff like you
see on trek frames and campy cranks - /that/ is directly structural, but
weave usually covers a bland and unaesthetic structural substrate.
|
| | | |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 06:41:45
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 19:09:01 +1000, dabac
<dabac.2uqfwb@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com > wrote:
>
>Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman Wrote:
>>
>> Could a repair be made by wrapping a piece of appropriate carbon fiber
>> cloth around the stay and bonding it with an appropriate epoxy?
>
>Sure, as long as:
>A) the damage is a sufficient distance from the ends to allow a decent
>overlap, 30 mm or so in both directions
>B) the owner is ready to accept the weight increase of perhaps 15-30
>grams for the added material
>C) the owner is ready to accept the aestethic blemish of the slight
>swelling and less-than-perfect surface match of the repair.
And this sort of fix is only possible if there is enough room for it.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
| | | | |
Date: 06 Aug 2007 17:23:13
From: dabac
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
John Forrest Tomlinson Wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 19:09:01 +1000, dabac
> <dabac.2uqfwb@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman Wrote:
> >>
> >> Could a repair be made by wrapping a piece of appropriate carbon
> fiber
> >> cloth around the stay and bonding it with an appropriate epoxy?
> >
> >Sure, *as long as*:
> >A) *the damage is a sufficient distance from the ends to allow a
> decent
> >overlap, *30 mm or so in both directions
> >B) the owner is ready to accept the weight increase of perhaps 15-30
> >grams for the added material
> >C) the owner is ready to accept the aestethic blemish of the slight
> >swelling and less-than-perfect surface match of the repair.
>
> And this sort of fix is only possible if there is enough room for it.
And your point in rephrasing my statement A is....?
--
dabac
|
| |
Date: 02 Aug 2007 19:23:55
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
SC wrote:
> I've had my Specialized Tarmac Pro for about two months now - I was
> cleaning it the other day and noticed the chainstay protector (a
> carbon fiber plate) was skewed sitting about 75-deg up from the
> chainstay. And right there where the plate used to be was a nice deep
> gouge in the carbon. There is some grease on the plate but no damage
> to it. The LBS guys say the damage is deep enough to cause structural
> problems (it didn't look too deep to me, but it *is* into the carbon).
>
> Jeez.
>
> I took the frame back to the LBS who tried to get Specialized to
> replace it based on the fact the plate came off, but Specialized said,
> "Dude, takka hike!"
>
> Everyone who has seen it sez some type of chain suck caused this but I
> can't remember, for the life of me any such an episode, let alone one
> that would cause a serious gouge.
>
> In the past Specialized has warranty replaced frames that I thought
> were in much better shape (a couple of the old glued carbon tube
> frames that were oxiding at the joints)
>
> My questions for the group:
> Has anyone seen this problem with carbon fiber frames? Sounds like a
> little chainsuck protector would be a good insurance item for owners.
>
> Is there any appeal route from Specialized? The LBS is sending in the
> frame to see if they change their mind.
>
> Do you think the warranty should cover chain suck if the problem was
> the chainstay protector came off?
>
> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
1. if you post pics, it'll be easier to give an opinion on the problem.
2. chain suck is not a frame manufacturer's fault.
3. a gouged steel frame will fatigue most impressively.
|
| | |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 06:07:37
From: Stan Cox
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
jim beam wrote:
> SC wrote:
<snip >
stay protector came off?
>>
>> I guess I gotta go back to steel :)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Steve
>>
<Snip >
> 3. a gouged steel frame will fatigue most impressively.
As indeed did my Fausto Coppi. I had the chain off in the first race I
did on it and dinged the stay. It lasted another 3 years till one day I
started to hear a pinging noise. On investigation the stay had a crack
80% of the way around it. The only difference with steel was that Chas
Roberts did a fine job of replacing the stay and the frame is still in
use today as my winter hack.
Stan Cox
|
| | | |
Date: 05 Aug 2007 15:07:49
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
On Aug 5, 3:03 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net > wrote:
> In article
> <1186264315.682047.225...@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> Ozark Bicycle
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > IIRC, all this whining about "road buzz", the horrors of chipseal,
> > etc., etc., began with the growth in popularity of large tubed, thin
> > walled aluminum frames, which have a tendency to be noisy.
>
> Not quite. Chip-seal roads are rough enough to
> dissipate perceptible power; enough to slow you
> compared to a smooth pavement.
>
Perhaps, but that wasn't the topic. Chipseal has existed for quite a
long time, the whining about it and the "discomfort" it causes is much
more recent.
|
| |
Date: 02 Aug 2007 19:00:22
From: amakyonin
Subject: Re: chainstay gouge
|
It's unfortunate that Specialized doesn't wan't to support their
customer when their product has such an obvious flaw.
Since they are going through the trouble to make the guard out of
carbon fiber they could improve the design by including some tabs on
the ends that wrap around the stay to keep it in place. I liew of this
design improvement, some zipties will serve the same function.
|
|
