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Main
Date: 26 Sep 2007 10:11:29
From: Peter Howard
Subject: grease or threadlock?
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I'm a novice home bike mechanic doing a build on a frameset. Looking for
opinions on how to treat the various small capscrews such as stem clamp/cap
bolts, brake pivot bolts, rack mount bolts etc.
Should I grease them up and torque them down so I can get them apart again
later or should I degrease, prime and use Loctite threadlock? Where steel
screws thread into aluminium holes my instinct is to grease them but my
instinct could be wrong.
What do experienced people do?
If the bikes usage influences the correct answer, my bikes are an alloy
framed comfort bike, an alloy framed xc mtb, a recumbent trike and the build
project is a steel frame tourer
Peter H
Australia.
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Date: 04 Oct 2007 01:37:25
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: grease or threadlock?
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solution to locktite ignornace is taking a bolt and nut similar to the
assembly you could use locktite on and trying out loctite on the test
bolt or bolts using a drop, fluid covering, blue and a drop of red....
unless covering head bolts, red isn't a weld.
Red on front hub nuts where the front wheel is a wee bit out of
everything, good enough but less than good LBS work, WILL work loose
and then retained by the axle's nuts.
red is useable on ball and cone and spindle shimano BB assemblies as
the greased shimano gasket isn't fazed by cautious torch heating
breaking the red down to a powder for disassembly.
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 06:38:55
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Subject: Re: grease or threadlock?
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On Sep 26, 8:44 pm, "Jeff" <n...@nothingX.com > wrote:
> "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <pe...@vecchios.com> wrote in
> messagenews:1190837184.147429.38330@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Sep 26, 4:11 am, "Peter Howard" <bbrover...@bbbigpond.net.au>
> > wrote:
> > If it has threads, grease. If it slides between metal or carbon parts,
> > grease, like the seatpost into the seatube.
>
> Do others agree with this? I'm new to CF, but about to put a CF post into a
> TI tube myself in a few days.
>
> I've read to never grease a CF seatpost because it will prevent a proper
> friction fit under proper torque and will require you to apply too much
> torque that might damage things. I've read to use something callled "tacx"
> for CF that is tightened like a seatpost. Instead of promoting sliding, it
> promotes friction while keeping the parts from binding. I was planning to
> use this on the seatpost and the stem where it attaches to the bar and to
> the steerer tube.
>
> ...ordered a small tub for about $15 or so, but it hasn't arrived yet.
>
> Do others use this or a similar product?
>
> Jeff
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
The only time you do not grease is carbon seatpost and carbon seatube
innard. We have more than a few ti/steel/aluminum bikes with the
carbon post welded into it .. Tacx is the best, a wee bit of antisieze
is next best. ONLY the Tacx stuff for carbon/carbon.
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 04:29:24
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: grease or threadlock?
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On Oct 2, 9:16 pm, smokeystrodt...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Oct 2, 7:59 pm, "Jeff" <n...@nothingX.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "datakoll" <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:1191193573.938281.288370@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > NOT REQUIRED? NOT REQUIRED? by whom? its not like you 're giving a
> > > goat 4 quarts of blood, it's a little blue bottle sells for $4, needs
> > > one clean ferrous surface and that's it.
> > > Use red on small screws like deray pulley bolts and cable clamps. To
> > > adjust and recoat: wipe off outisde surface, wipe with CHO, toothbrush
> > > out intersace between srfaces then loosen bolt, squirt new lockite
> > > inbetween, reclamp the adjustment.
>
> > Why the red? Isn't that the high strenght stuff that is supposed to be
> > essentially permanent?
>
> > Jeff
>
> > --
> > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
>
> Red Loctite is high strength and often involves heating to disassemble
> parts. I don't think it would be recommended for small screws.
>
> Smokey- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
NOPE! holding power is defined by total thread surface area, thread
height, thread percentage, and probabbly Al-Fe or Fe-Fe, and off
course surfgace condton. So, although blue works on deray pulley
bolts, clamp bolts, red is a better holder at these lesser surface
areas. Loctite instructions can be interpreted in this direction.
For larger bolts/nuts/flanges, a drop of red at around an end thread
(not the male end thread) over a continuous coating of blue 242 is way
stronger than only blue and 10oX stronger than a drop of blue on the
male fastener.
3/8" U-joint nuts and bolts take red and hold only 7-8 years max
before loosening slightly but are seperable without heat early on.
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Date: 02 Oct 2007 18:16:12
From:
Subject: Re: grease or threadlock?
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On Oct 2, 7:59 pm, "Jeff" <n...@nothingX.com > wrote:
> "datakoll" <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1191193573.938281.288370@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > NOT REQUIRED? NOT REQUIRED? by whom? its not like you 're giving a
> > goat 4 quarts of blood, it's a little blue bottle sells for $4, needs
> > one clean ferrous surface and that's it.
> > Use red on small screws like deray pulley bolts and cable clamps. To
> > adjust and recoat: wipe off outisde surface, wipe with CHO, toothbrush
> > out intersace between srfaces then loosen bolt, squirt new lockite
> > inbetween, reclamp the adjustment.
>
> Why the red? Isn't that the high strenght stuff that is supposed to be
> essentially permanent?
>
> Jeff
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
Red Loctite is high strength and often involves heating to disassemble
parts. I don't think it would be recommended for small screws.
Smokey
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Date: 30 Sep 2007 23:06:13
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: grease or threadlock?
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NOT REQUIRED? NOT REQUIRED? by whom? its not like you 're giving a
goat 4 quarts of blood, it's a little blue bottle sells for $4, needs
one clean ferrous surface and that's it.
Use red on small screws like deray pulley bolts and cable clamps. To
adjust and recoat: wipe off outisde surface, wipe with CHO, toothbrush
out intersace between srfaces then loosen bolt, squirt new lockite
inbetween, reclamp the adjustment.
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Date: 02 Oct 2007 19:59:33
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: grease or threadlock?
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"datakoll" <datakoll@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1191193573.938281.288370@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> NOT REQUIRED? NOT REQUIRED? by whom? its not like you 're giving a
> goat 4 quarts of blood, it's a little blue bottle sells for $4, needs
> one clean ferrous surface and that's it.
> Use red on small screws like deray pulley bolts and cable clamps. To
> adjust and recoat: wipe off outisde surface, wipe with CHO, toothbrush
> out intersace between srfaces then loosen bolt, squirt new lockite
> inbetween, reclamp the adjustment.
Why the red? Isn't that the high strenght stuff that is supposed to be
essentially permanent?
Jeff
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 30 Sep 2007 22:27:25
From: Joel Mayes
Subject: Re: grease or threadlock?
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On 2007-09-26, Peter Howard <bbrover109@bbbigpond.net.au > wrote:
> I'm a novice home bike mechanic doing a build on a frameset. Looking for
> opinions on how to treat the various small capscrews such as stem clamp/cap
> bolts, brake pivot bolts, rack mount bolts etc.
> Should I grease them up and torque them down so I can get them apart again
> later or should I degrease, prime and use Loctite threadlock? Where steel
> screws thread into aluminium holes my instinct is to grease them but my
> instinct could be wrong.
> What do experienced people do?
> If the bikes usage influences the correct answer, my bikes are an alloy
> framed comfort bike, an alloy framed xc mtb, a recumbent trike and the build
> project is a steel frame tourer
>
> Peter H
> Australia.
Grease and more grease! (though some mechanics argue over greasing the
BB spindle-crank interface).
Pay particular attention to the seatpost and the stem it is really
common to find old bike with these ``rusted'' in place particularly with
steel frames using alloy post or stem.
You can use a mild form of loctite on virbration sensative areas like
rack/fender mount bolts and canti/V/U brake pivot bolts but in my
experience for normal riding this is not required.
Cheers
Joel
--
Human Powered Cycles
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Date: 27 Sep 2007 22:44:55
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: grease or threadlock?
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notice how wierd reality is when moving into the carbon plateau?
don't fly the bomber in the rain? a sandstorm?
EG, all these megabuck carbon technos go blah blah blah grease grease
grease never specifying what grease they're slinging.
very informative.
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Date: 27 Sep 2007 22:36:31
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: grease or threadlock?
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let us knot forget Mr. Zinn
.
http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/9023.0.html
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Date: 27 Sep 2007 22:20:19
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: grease or threadlock?
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NEVILLE ASKS: what's so funny about "it"?
google search - lubrication carbon fiber tubes
what's so funny about it?
search google - lubrication carbon fiber tubes
. Are Finish Line products safe for use on Carbon Fiber Frames and
Parts?
A. Yes. All of our products are safe to use on carbon fiber bike
parts; our three degreasers, four lubes, our polish, grease, etc are
all safe to use on and around carbon fiber bike parts. The exception
is our DOT Brake Fluid - you don't want to get DOT fluid on any
painted or finished surface because it'll attack the paint / finish.
Which is a good way to think of carbon fiber components - the
compatibility is with the finish, not the underlying material. Unless
the carbon fiber component is 'nude' - which is very rare - you
essentially have a painted or clear coated item to be concerned about.
If a cleaner, lube, etc will not attack the paint or finish coating -
it won't be attacking the underlying material. Your component could be
made of plastic, metal, or carbon fiber - if it's painted or finished
(99.9% of them are) it's protected and safe to be cleaned and lubed
with any Finish Line product.
The exception to this rule is the interior of carbon fiber frames...
some are not finished with a clear coat, so for seat tubes and head
tubes - you do want to be careful what you spray or smear into the
inside of them.
The good news is that even on the inside of carbon fiber frame tubes
that are finished smooth - all Finish Line products, except Speed
Clean and the DOT brake fluid are safe. If the inside of your frame
seat tube or head tube is not finished and rough to the touch (very
rare), then you should be very careful to avoid letting any chemical
or oil come in contact with that inside surface.
For an excellent article on Carbon Fiber and all things concerning it,
go here:
http://agouracycles.com/page.cfm?pageId=226&preview=yes
myself? i wudda guessed silicone grease.
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Date: 27 Sep 2007 09:58:26
From: russellseaton1@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: grease or threadlock?
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On Sep 27, 7:14 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
<pe...@vecchios.com > wrote:
> On Sep 26, 8:44 pm, "Jeff" <n...@nothingX.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <pe...@vecchios.com> wrote in
> > messagenews:1190837184.147429.38330@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > On Sep 26, 4:11 am, "Peter Howard" <bbrover...@bbbigpond.net.au>
> > > wrote:
> > > If it has threads, grease. If it slides between metal or carbon parts,
> > > grease, like the seatpost into the seatube.
>
> > Do others agree with this? I'm new to CF, but about to put a CF post into a
> > TI tube myself in a few days.
>
> > I've read to never grease a CF seatpost because it will prevent a proper
> > friction fit under proper torque and will require you to apply too much
> > torque that might damage things. I've read to use something callled "tacx"
> > for CF that is tightened like a seatpost. Instead of promoting sliding, it
> > promotes friction while keeping the parts from binding. I was planning to
> > use this on the seatpost and the stem where it attaches to the bar and to
> > the steerer tube.
>
> > ...ordered a small tub for about $15 or so, but it hasn't arrived yet.
>
> > Do others use this or a similar product?
>
> > Jeff
>
> > --
> > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
>
> We use the Tacx stuff but w/o it. we use a wee bit of antisieze or
> grease otherwise ypou risk having the seatpost getting stuck in a
> metal frame. Also use the Tacx stuff exclusively in carbon post/carbon
> frame.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Never used carbon seatposts, and likely won't, so just asking. But do
carbon seatposts ever bind in metal seattubes? What kind of corrosion
or oxidation would cause this binding to occur?
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Date: 27 Sep 2007 05:14:58
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Subject: Re: grease or threadlock?
|
On Sep 26, 8:44 pm, "Jeff" <n...@nothingX.com > wrote:
> "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <pe...@vecchios.com> wrote in
> messagenews:1190837184.147429.38330@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Sep 26, 4:11 am, "Peter Howard" <bbrover...@bbbigpond.net.au>
> > wrote:
> > If it has threads, grease. If it slides between metal or carbon parts,
> > grease, like the seatpost into the seatube.
>
> Do others agree with this? I'm new to CF, but about to put a CF post into a
> TI tube myself in a few days.
>
> I've read to never grease a CF seatpost because it will prevent a proper
> friction fit under proper torque and will require you to apply too much
> torque that might damage things. I've read to use something callled "tacx"
> for CF that is tightened like a seatpost. Instead of promoting sliding, it
> promotes friction while keeping the parts from binding. I was planning to
> use this on the seatpost and the stem where it attaches to the bar and to
> the steerer tube.
>
> ...ordered a small tub for about $15 or so, but it hasn't arrived yet.
>
> Do others use this or a similar product?
>
> Jeff
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
We use the Tacx stuff but w/o it. we use a wee bit of antisieze or
grease otherwise ypou risk having the seatpost getting stuck in a
metal frame. Also use the Tacx stuff exclusively in carbon post/carbon
frame.
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Date: 27 Sep 2007 06:09:56
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: grease or threadlock?
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Cheops seatpost
thin filming the seatpost with copper anti seize or aluminum anti
seize then lubing the antyi-seize with a fil m of linseed oil solves
the problem for eternity even in a wet climate. leave a rimming or
seal of the mix at seatpost's top edge. when the need comes to remove
seatpost 4-5 years later, use vice grips to twist pull lossen and
withdraw. refilm seatpost and top inch of seat tube with linseed
before reinsertion. copper is coarser than aluminum, almost sandy in
the tube I'm using but probably more effective in that a surface with
copper will stay almost completely unreduced by chemical reactions
when aluminum may show some tarnish even slight plated tarnish or
reduction of surface. my language is common not specialized
engineering.
bolts are something else. modern race car practice sez liberally use
blue 242 locktite on CLEAN male and female threads. torque down
carefully, seat and reseat. capping the outside edge with linseed
keeps the locktite waterproof.
a major problem with grease is grease washs out with water. millions
in R and D are spent unsolving the washout problem yet mechanics will
show up here and sing praises for grease while ignoring that fact.
linseed on exposed steel like axle ends prevents rust or degradation
of plating, it's a crude or primitive but effective wax that needs
replenishment from time to time depending on the monsoon's intensity.
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Date: 26 Sep 2007 13:06:24
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Subject: Re: grease or threadlock?
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On Sep 26, 4:11 am, "Peter Howard" <bbrover...@bbbigpond.net.au >
wrote:
> I'm a novice home bike mechanic doing a build on a frameset. Looking for
> opinions on how to treat the various small capscrews such as stem clamp/cap
> bolts, brake pivot bolts, rack mount bolts etc.
> Should I grease them up and torque them down so I can get them apart again
> later or should I degrease, prime and use Loctite threadlock? Where steel
> screws thread into aluminium holes my instinct is to grease them but my
> instinct could be wrong.
> What do experienced people do?
> If the bikes usage influences the correct answer, my bikes are an alloy
> framed comfort bike, an alloy framed xc mtb, a recumbent trike and the build
> project is a steel frame tourer
>
> Peter H
> Australia.
If it has threads, grease. If it slides between metal or carbon parts,
grease, like the seatpost into the seatube.
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Date: 30 Sep 2007 14:45:37
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: grease or threadlock?
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Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
>
> If it has threads, grease. If it slides between metal or carbon parts,
> grease, like the seatpost into the seatube.
Like greasing the area of the crank that slides over the taper?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
A Real Cyclist [TM] keeps at least one bicycle in the bedroom.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 26 Sep 2007 21:44:16
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: grease or threadlock?
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"Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <peter@vecchios.com > wrote in
message news:1190837184.147429.38330@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 26, 4:11 am, "Peter Howard" <bbrover...@bbbigpond.net.au>
> wrote:
> If it has threads, grease. If it slides between metal or carbon parts,
> grease, like the seatpost into the seatube.
Do others agree with this? I'm new to CF, but about to put a CF post into a
TI tube myself in a few days.
I've read to never grease a CF seatpost because it will prevent a proper
friction fit under proper torque and will require you to apply too much
torque that might damage things. I've read to use something callled "tacx"
for CF that is tightened like a seatpost. Instead of promoting sliding, it
promotes friction while keeping the parts from binding. I was planning to
use this on the seatpost and the stem where it attaches to the bar and to
the steerer tube.
...ordered a small tub for about $15 or so, but it hasn't arrived yet.
Do others use this or a similar product?
Jeff
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 27 Sep 2007 19:38:43
From: Lou Holtman
Subject: Re: grease or threadlock?
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Jeff wrote:
>
> "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <peter@vecchios.com> wrote in
> message news:1190837184.147429.38330@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 26, 4:11 am, "Peter Howard" <bbrover...@bbbigpond.net.au>
>> wrote:
>
>> If it has threads, grease. If it slides between metal or carbon parts,
>> grease, like the seatpost into the seatube.
>
> Do others agree with this? I'm new to CF, but about to put a CF post
> into a TI tube myself in a few days.
>
> I've read to never grease a CF seatpost because it will prevent a proper
> friction fit under proper torque and will require you to apply too much
> torque that might damage things. I've read to use something callled
> "tacx" for CF that is tightened like a seatpost. Instead of promoting
> sliding, it promotes friction while keeping the parts from binding. I
> was planning to use this on the seatpost and the stem where it attaches
> to the bar and to the steerer tube.
>
> ...ordered a small tub for about $15 or so, but it hasn't arrived yet.
>
> Do others use this or a similar product?
Yes it works great. I use Dynamic Montagepaste. Funny stuff.
Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)
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Date: 26 Sep 2007 22:16:58
From: dabac
Subject: Re: grease or threadlock?
|
Peter Howard Wrote:
> I'm a novice home bike mechanic doing a build on a frameset. Lookin
> for
> opinions on how to treat the various small capscrews such as ste
> clamp/cap
> bolts, brake pivot bolts, rack mount bolts etc.
> Should I grease them up and torque them down so I can get them apar
> again
> later or should I degrease, prime and use Loctite threadlock?
Caliper brake bolts, or, rather, their nuts are often locknuts, so the
shouldn't need any extra effort. Cantilever brake pivot bolts are IM
always delivered with some sort of threadlock already applied.
I've had rack/fender mount bolts come loose on several occasions, so
might be inclined to try threadlock there.
Stem clamp OTOH has never been a problem
--
dabac
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