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Main
Date: 11 Jul 2007 11:50:28
From: dhudes
Subject: kids and toe clips
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My 2 daughters, 8-1/2 and 10-1/2 are getting into bicycling. They love
to go with me but their steel frame department store bikes, bascially
MTB frames with no shocks and wide tires on 20" for the younger and
22" wheels for the older, are relatively heavy and the girls have
trouble with hills, though they are young strong and determined. I
ride a hybrid with clipless pedals and MTB shoes and have experienced
the dramatic improvement in efficiency after having switched out the
platform pedals for shimano MTB clipless pedals. I would like to
improve my daughters' pedaling efficiency so they can better enjoy
cycling but I am concerned with practicality and safety.
Clipless pedals might prove too much task loading for them especially
the younger. There is also the concern of the effect on growing feet
and frankly the expense of bicycle shoes (if indeed I could even get
them in their size; bicycle shorts were difficult enough to find but
Perl Izumi does have youth sizes that some dealers carry).
Toe clips seem, in abstract, an appropriate solution but I'd
appreciate feedback on this from anyone with any experience with
children and toe clips.
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Date: 20 Jul 2007 15:27:41
From: dhudes
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
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On Jul 16, 3:34 pm, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com > wrote:
> On Jul 15, 12:58 am, dhudes <dhu...@stevens.edu> wrote:
>
>> So now I need critera for selecting metal cage pedals.
>
> My experience/opinion is shoes (can) make the most difference, as you
> can push down a lot harder on the pedal with a stiff-soled cycling
> shoe without feeling the pedal through the shoe, as with a tennis shoe
> or "sneaker", like kids wear. The old Beta Bikers, with their thick
> sole in the pedal area, were an effort to provide a walkable shoe that
> was also a "rider".
>
Even if I wanted I do not see bicycle shoes in youth sizes.
> The various metal pedals, Campy clones and others, have a thin "cage"
> that is not pleasant to ride on (opinion/experience) with thin soles.
> Not to mention the lack of cleats for positioning.
I think toe clips (strapless) do help with positioning the foot.
> I find the clipless pedals I've tried-- Look, Campy Profit, Shimano
> 6610's (newer pattern, road) easier to get out of than a strap-
> equipped pedal, with or without cleats. A simple twist gets you out of
> any of the clipless (while the motions might vary a little from brand
> to brand), while getting out of a toestrap-equipped pedal takes a more
> difficult motion, with a cleat adding another dimension again--
> rolling the foot up off the pedal to get out of the cleat slot, then
> pulling the foot backwards out of the strap. With clipless, you just
> keep on pushing but turn the foot. Simpler.
Mini toe clips simply require pulling the foot backward. One can
continue that motion and be off the pedal completely; yes, its true
that to put the foot down one must pull back and then push out to the
side but I do not see that as difficult to learn.
>
> The only place I've used the old-style "spud" SPD pedals is in Spin
> class, but as I have at least one of the kids getting up to that age/
> interest, I'm thinking to get one of those setups for her road bike,
> possibly with MTB shoes for easy walking, since they seem pretty easy
> to get in and out of, both for motion required and also effort. We'll
> see if she gets along with the 6610's (out of the Dad parts box...)
> first. Those "pontoon" cleats walk pretty well for a road shoe, and
> they seem to have a pretty "clean" disengagement, from my use, without
> the Look "unintentional release" problem when the cleats get worn.
>
I use Shimano MTB shoes with SPD cleats and I have no problem walking
around in them; I try to minimize walking on pavmenet with them as
much as possible to avoid wearing them out but I can park my bike out
front and go into a store with them without fear of damaging the
cleats.
> After taking the 7 yr old on his first trip around the new
> neighborhood this a.m., I'm still in favor of lower gears to make
> pedaling uphill easier, but indeed there is a learning curve there. He
> doesn't like the feel of first gear, claimed it was "wasting all my
> energy", but second was a little too tall for him to get up that
> certain hill, especially since he tried to drop me before he blew.
> Another learning curve, there. --D-y
Chain rings are a big help there. The difference in leg strength
between my two daughters isn't that much and their bikes are about the
same weight but the older has a triple chain ring (both have 5 gears
in the cassette). The tires on the younger one's bike are fatter but
with a road tread; the older one's got a mountain bike without shocks
so she's got the knobby tires on her bike. Both girls do indeed like
to 'drop' Daddy on the downhills and will pedal furiously to do so as
I coast downhill standing in my pedals to increase drag so they can
catch up. Uphill, I end up waiting at the top of the hill (and I'm on
a hybrid with front shocks). The MTB on 1st chain ring is a better
gear ratio than the fixed chain ring of the smaller bike.
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Date: 20 Jul 2007 15:16:24
From: dhudes
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
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On Jul 16, 8:28 am, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net > wrote:
> dhudes wrote:
>
> I can't argue with your "feelings", but if you want to argue science,
> this is the place for it.
no please go start another thread on the question. I'm not buying into
clipless pedals and bike shoes for my kids this year. Each year I will
evaluate the situation and their bicycles as well as the available
products (it's hard enough to find dealers for youth-size bicycle
shorts; I did find a few though) and decide anew but for -this- year
the decision is 'no'.
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Date: 16 Jul 2007 12:34:10
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
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On Jul 15, 12:58 am, dhudes <dhu...@stevens.edu > wrote:
> you are welcome to believe what you like. I personally have
> experienced the difference between using regular pedals and using
> bicycle shoes with clipless pedals and cleats (snip)
> I'm not as experienced with toe clips or toe straps as I
> am with clipless pedals. It seems to me from their design that power
> grips offer some of the advantages of clipless pedals. I have ridden
> with toe clips on a road bike and I felt that I had more efficient
> transfer of my power to the bicycle compared to not using them. If you
> do not care to believe the evidence that's your choice but please go
> argue this elsewhere. The rest of us will go on using clipless pedals
> and toe clips/straps because we see the result.
Where do shoes fit into this equation-- did you use the same shoes
with and without toe clips/straps?
> As for mini toe clips, further investigation reveals that I'm going to
> have to replace the pedals with metal cage pedals in order to attach
> anything. The plastic cage pedals are too brittle, and the 'solid'
> platforms on the other bike provide no ability to mount anything I
> would have to drill through. While I have a drill, the material of the
> pedal isn't substantial enough to hold the bolts for the toe clips et
> al.
> So now I need critera for selecting metal cage pedals.
My experience/opinion is shoes (can) make the most difference, as you
can push down a lot harder on the pedal with a stiff-soled cycling
shoe without feeling the pedal through the shoe, as with a tennis shoe
or "sneaker", like kids wear. The old Beta Bikers, with their thick
sole in the pedal area, were an effort to provide a walkable shoe that
was also a "rider".
The various metal pedals, Campy clones and others, have a thin "cage"
that is not pleasant to ride on (opinion/experience) with thin soles.
Not to mention the lack of cleats for positioning. When I rode those
old Beta Bikers, it seemed I had to be careful with "too much float"
as I came home with sore knee(s) a couple of times after running into
a riding group while on a commute or whatever, and going longer and
much harder than usual with those non-cleated shoes.
I find the clipless pedals I've tried-- Look, Campy Profit, Shimano
6610's (newer pattern, road) easier to get out of than a strap-
equipped pedal, with or without cleats. A simple twist gets you out of
any of the clipless (while the motions might vary a little from brand
to brand), while getting out of a toestrap-equipped pedal takes a more
difficult motion, with a cleat adding another dimension again--
rolling the foot up off the pedal to get out of the cleat slot, then
pulling the foot backwards out of the strap. With clipless, you just
keep on pushing but turn the foot. Simpler.
The only place I've used the old-style "spud" SPD pedals is in Spin
class, but as I have at least one of the kids getting up to that age/
interest, I'm thinking to get one of those setups for her road bike,
possibly with MTB shoes for easy walking, since they seem pretty easy
to get in and out of, both for motion required and also effort. We'll
see if she gets along with the 6610's (out of the Dad parts box...)
first. Those "pontoon" cleats walk pretty well for a road shoe, and
they seem to have a pretty "clean" disengagement, from my use, without
the Look "unintentional release" problem when the cleats get worn.
After taking the 7 yr old on his first trip around the new
neighborhood this a.m., I'm still in favor of lower gears to make
pedaling uphill easier, but indeed there is a learning curve there. He
doesn't like the feel of first gear, claimed it was "wasting all my
energy", but second was a little too tall for him to get up that
certain hill, especially since he tried to drop me before he blew.
Another learning curve, there. --D-y
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Date: 14 Jul 2007 22:58:16
From: dhudes
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
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On Jul 14, 1:04 pm, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net > wrote:
> There is no "mechanical advantage".
you are welcome to believe what you like. I personally have
experienced the difference between using regular pedals and using
bicycle shoes with clipless pedals and cleats: it made the difference
between climbing the Great Hill in Central Park and damn near falling
off the bike trying. . Equipment is not everything, the rider is
certainly a curcial part of it: I am sure any Tour De France rider on
a mountain bike with regular pedals could blow the doors off of any
club rider on a carbon or titanium road bike with clipless pedals and
road shoes. I'm not as experienced with toe clips or toe straps as I
am with clipless pedals. It seems to me from their design that power
grips offer some of the advantages of clipless pedals. I have ridden
with toe clips on a road bike and I felt that I had more efficient
transfer of my power to the bicycle compared to not using them. If you
do not care to believe the evidence that's your choice but please go
argue this elsewhere. The rest of us will go on using clipless pedals
and toe clips/straps because we see the result.
As for mini toe clips, further investigation reveals that I'm going to
have to replace the pedals with metal cage pedals in order to attach
anything. The plastic cage pedals are too brittle, and the 'solid'
platforms on the other bike provide no ability to mount anything I
would have to drill through. While I have a drill, the material of the
pedal isn't substantial enough to hold the bolts for the toe clips et
al.
So now I need critera for selecting metal cage pedals.
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Date: 16 Jul 2007 08:28:15
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
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dhudes wrote:
> I'm not as experienced with toe clips or toe straps as I
> am with clipless pedals. It seems to me from their design that power
> grips offer some of the advantages of clipless pedals. I have ridden
> with toe clips on a road bike and I felt that I had more efficient
> transfer of my power to the bicycle compared to not using them. If you
> do not care to believe the evidence that's your choice but please go
> argue this elsewhere. The rest of us will go on using clipless pedals
> and toe clips/straps because we see the result.
I can't argue with your "feelings", but if you want to argue science,
this is the place for it.
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Date: 13 Jul 2007 12:56:59
From:
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
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On Jul 13, 12:31 pm, dhudes <dhu...@stevens.edu > wrote:
> The question becomes one of criteria for selecting a particular
> brand of mini toe clip: should I prefer the Zefal or is the Nashbar
> house brand just as good?
The differences are probably minor, and may depend on details of the
mating pedals. But they're so cheap, it doesn't matter much. You
could buy a set of each and become the real expert on the
subject. ;-)
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 13 Jul 2007 09:41:02
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
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On Jul 11, 7:44 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 11, 8:24 pm, "Joe" <simpson9...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > Being young I would hesitate to lock their knees in at
> > this point. I know running and weight training is restricted to a degree
> > for young children and my fear is that toe clips could cause injuries.
>
> That's a very good point.
>
> Despite many years of cycling using toe clips - without cleats, and
> usually pretty loose - my daughter had some knee problems when she
> first went clipless. If you're going to really fasten feet to pedals,
> it's got to be done precisely right for that person.
>
> And kids won't be able to give the precise feedback needed to make
> sure it's done right.
Even many adults have trouble giving meaningful feedback regarding
foot position, saddle height, seat set-back, etc., etc. You have to
fit them -- which is hard when it comes to cleat position. It reminds
me of getting glasses: "one or two, two or three, three or one."
My 11 year old uses toe clips on the tandem and nothing on his own
bike. He has those campus pedals and can go clipless when he wants.
At this point, I am just happy he is riding. I figure he will ask for
toe clips or shoes at some point. The good part is he wears size 13
shoes -- same as me -- and I can give him my old Carnacs and can fuss
with the cleat when it comes time. There are some benefits to having
a son with clown feet. I can wear his shoes (which are always strewn
about the house) when I go out and get the paper in the morning. --
Jay Beattie.
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Date: 13 Jul 2007 09:31:53
From: dhudes
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
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On Jul 13, 8:32 am, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net > wrote:
> dhudes wrote:
> > On Jul 12, 7:46 am, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> Forget the clips or clipless. Buy them better bikes.
>
>
> > The question of power grips vs. the Zefal or other mini-clips is
> > interesting. One issue is that power grips I've seen aren't available
> > in a smaller size, but they seem to have some adjustment capability.
> > Another is that neither bicycle has metal-cage pedals, the one is
> > plastic cage the other is more your pair of solid pair platforms.
> > This raises the question of the feasibility of power-grip
> > installation. Power Grips are $40, Zefal minis are about $7 and
> > Nashbar has their own for $3.12 (I suspect that price is per pedal and
> > of course you need 2 per bike). It looks like I could just drill a
> > hole in the pedal for the mini-clip installation.
>
> I've never used mini clips, but have ridden many thousand of miles with
> straps, Power Grips and bare pedals. I have ridden clipless (SPD)
> exclusively for the past decade. Based on my experience, I would never
> put a kid in straps or Power Grips, unless they were stoking a tandem, I
> think the risks are substantial and the benefits are nil.
>
> Unless you are riding at high power levels, foot retention mechs don't
> do anything. They basically serve to prevent foot slips off the pedal,
> which is only an issue when cranking hard. The downside is foot
> entrapment in a fall. Power Grips are especially bad in this, as they
> tighten with foot rotation in one direction. I broke a rib once mountain
> biking in straps when I couldn't disengage, and I have a friend who had
> a serious spiral fracture when his (Crank Bros) clipless didn't disengage.- Hide quoted text -
>
It is exactly the hard crankig that one does trying to climb a hill
that is the situation I am atempting to address.
Power Grips seem, ass you note, dangerous though perhaps more
effective than toe clips. Mini toe clips such as the Zefal seem the
right solution: some mechanical advantage going up hill, minimal risk
since you just pull your foot back out nothing is clamped onto your
foot. The question becomes one of criteria for selecting a particular
brand of mini toe clip: should I prefer the Zefal or is the Nashbar
house brand just as good? Some other choice perhaps?
> - Show quoted text -
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Date: 14 Jul 2007 13:04:41
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
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dhudes wrote:
> On Jul 13, 8:32 am, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Unless you are riding at high power levels, foot retention mechs don't
>> do anything. They basically serve to prevent foot slips off the pedal,
>> which is only an issue when cranking hard. The downside is foot
>> entrapment in a fall. Power Grips are especially bad in this, as they
>> tighten with foot rotation in one direction. I broke a rib once mountain
>> biking in straps when I couldn't disengage, and I have a friend who had
>> a serious spiral fracture when his (Crank Bros) clipless didn't disengage.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>
> It is exactly the hard crankig that one does trying to climb a hill
> that is the situation I am atempting to address.
Not really, not if you have gears. There's no reason to up the power
during hill climbing.
> Power Grips seem, ass you note, dangerous though perhaps more
> effective than toe clips. Mini toe clips such as the Zefal seem the
> right solution: some mechanical advantage going up hill,
There is no "mechanical advantage".
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Date: 14 Jul 2007 01:02:39
From: NewsG
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
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I used to use the steel mini toe clips and liked them. They keep your
foot from moving around and bouncing out of the pedals. And, of course,
loads of float.
Haven't tried the plastic ones.
dhudes wrote:
>>
>
> It is exactly the hard crankig that one does trying to climb a hill
> that is the situation I am atempting to address.
> Power Grips seem, ass you note, dangerous though perhaps more
> effective than toe clips. Mini toe clips such as the Zefal seem the
> right solution: some mechanical advantage going up hill, minimal risk
> since you just pull your foot back out nothing is clamped onto your
> foot. The question becomes one of criteria for selecting a particular
> brand of mini toe clip: should I prefer the Zefal or is the Nashbar
> house brand just as good? Some other choice perhaps?
>
>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>
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Date: 12 Jul 2007 15:07:18
From: dhudes
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
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On Jul 12, 7:46 am, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net > wrote:
>
> Forget the clips or clipless. Buy them better bikes.
Easy for you to say, but where am I supposed to get the hundreds of
dollars for each bike (and don't forget the loss of the couple of
hundred I spent for these two)? I will eventually have to buy a new
bike for the elder daughter and hers will get handed down to the
younger but they just started on these this season, I have a good 3
years use left on the younger one's bike and 5-6 on the larger one
(the smaller bike was already used for a season by the elder girl).
Power grips or toe clips are fairly inexpensive way to improve their
cycling experience. The heavier bikes are more stable anyway and
haven't you ever heard of the joys of a steel frame (except when you
have to carry it up the stairs on the Triboro Bridge or the north path
on the GWB)?
The question of power grips vs. the Zefal or other mini-clips is
interesting. One issue is that power grips I've seen aren't available
in a smaller size, but they seem to have some adjustment capability.
Another is that neither bicycle has metal-cage pedals, the one is
plastic cage the other is more your pair of solid pair platforms.
This raises the question of the feasibility of power-grip
installation. Power Grips are $40, Zefal minis are about $7 and
Nashbar has their own for $3.12 (I suspect that price is per pedal and
of course you need 2 per bike). It looks like I could just drill a
hole in the pedal for the mini-clip installation.
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Date: 13 Jul 2007 08:32:55
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
dhudes wrote:
> On Jul 12, 7:46 am, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Forget the clips or clipless. Buy them better bikes.
>
> Easy for you to say, but where am I supposed to get the hundreds of
> dollars for each bike (and don't forget the loss of the couple of
> hundred I spent for these two)? I will eventually have to buy a new
> bike for the elder daughter and hers will get handed down to the
> younger but they just started on these this season, I have a good 3
> years use left on the younger one's bike and 5-6 on the larger one
> (the smaller bike was already used for a season by the elder girl).
> Power grips or toe clips are fairly inexpensive way to improve their
> cycling experience. The heavier bikes are more stable anyway and
> haven't you ever heard of the joys of a steel frame (except when you
> have to carry it up the stairs on the Triboro Bridge or the north path
> on the GWB)?
I've had to equip 2 kids with bikes (both road & off road) as they've
grown up. I avoided dept store bikes and mostly built their various
bikes from junkers and odd parts.
> The question of power grips vs. the Zefal or other mini-clips is
> interesting. One issue is that power grips I've seen aren't available
> in a smaller size, but they seem to have some adjustment capability.
> Another is that neither bicycle has metal-cage pedals, the one is
> plastic cage the other is more your pair of solid pair platforms.
> This raises the question of the feasibility of power-grip
> installation. Power Grips are $40, Zefal minis are about $7 and
> Nashbar has their own for $3.12 (I suspect that price is per pedal and
> of course you need 2 per bike). It looks like I could just drill a
> hole in the pedal for the mini-clip installation.
I've never used mini clips, but have ridden many thousand of miles with
straps, Power Grips and bare pedals. I have ridden clipless (SPD)
exclusively for the past decade. Based on my experience, I would never
put a kid in straps or Power Grips, unless they were stoking a tandem, I
think the risks are substantial and the benefits are nil.
Unless you are riding at high power levels, foot retention mechs don't
do anything. They basically serve to prevent foot slips off the pedal,
which is only an issue when cranking hard. The downside is foot
entrapment in a fall. Power Grips are especially bad in this, as they
tighten with foot rotation in one direction. I broke a rib once mountain
biking in straps when I couldn't disengage, and I have a friend who had
a serious spiral fracture when his (Crank Bros) clipless didn't disengage.
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Date: 12 Jul 2007 07:37:57
From: dhudes
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
> Hi Frank & the OP.
>
> Here is the URL to an image of Zefal mini toe-clips:
>
> >http://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk/public/index.php/product/toeclips/TC94...<
>
> Cheers from Peter
Thanks. I've seen something like that on some folks bikes. I'd call
that a real "toe clip" vs. the straps usually referred to as "toe
clips". It looks like it should help keep their feet on the pedal
properly but allow quick and easy withdrawal when needed. Now all I
have to do is find them in the right size but at least now I know what
I am trying to buy.
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Date: 13 Jul 2007 08:03:33
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:37:57 -0700, dhudes wrote:
> Thanks. I've seen something like that on some folks bikes. I'd call
> that a real "toe clip" vs. the straps usually referred to as "toe
> clips". It looks like it should help keep their feet on the pedal
> properly but allow quick and easy withdrawal when needed. Now all I
> have to do is find them in the right size but at least now I know what
> I am trying to buy.
On my commuter bike I have plastic toe clips which I've cut off just
above the curl that holds my toes. It works fine, doesn't look as silly
and doesn't snag on the ground nearly as much.
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Date: 12 Jul 2007 07:46:52
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
dhudes wrote:
> My 2 daughters, 8-1/2 and 10-1/2 are getting into bicycling. They love
> to go with me but their steel frame department store bikes, bascially
> MTB frames with no shocks and wide tires on 20" for the younger and
> 22" wheels for the older, are relatively heavy and the girls have
> trouble with hills, though they are young strong and determined. I
> ride a hybrid with clipless pedals and MTB shoes and have experienced
> the dramatic improvement in efficiency after having switched out the
> platform pedals for shimano MTB clipless pedals. I would like to
> improve my daughters' pedaling efficiency so they can better enjoy
> cycling but I am concerned with practicality and safety.
>
> Clipless pedals might prove too much task loading for them especially
> the younger. There is also the concern of the effect on growing feet
> and frankly the expense of bicycle shoes (if indeed I could even get
> them in their size; bicycle shorts were difficult enough to find but
> Perl Izumi does have youth sizes that some dealers carry).
>
> Toe clips seem, in abstract, an appropriate solution but I'd
> appreciate feedback on this from anyone with any experience with
> children and toe clips.
>
Forget the clips or clipless. Buy them better bikes.
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 23:10:41
From:
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
In article <1184179828.002918.232260@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >,
dhudes@stevens.edu says...
> Toe clips seem, in abstract, an appropriate solution but I'd
> appreciate feedback on this from anyone with any experience with
> children and toe clips.
Our three all started clips and straps at 5, I wouldn't expect any
trouble by 8 and 10.
--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/ >
Updated Infrared Photography Gallery:
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/photo/ir.html >
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 20:39:31
From: Sir Ridesalot
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
On Jul 11, 10:54 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 11, 7:12 pm, dhudes <dhu...@stevens.edu> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 11, 6:50 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > You might consider starting with the strapless mini-clips, if those
> > > are still available. (If not, tin snips would produce them from a set
> > > of regular toe clips.) Once they got used to that, try clips and
> > > loose straps. Then cinch down - or go to clipless.
>
> > Could you elaborate or give a product pointer for these "strapless
> > mini-clips"? I don't quite comprehend them, perhaps you could describe
> > some additional details?
>
> > Thanks
>
> They're toe clips that extend just over the top of the toes, not over
> the top of the foot, and they have no straps at all. IOW, they curl
> back, oh, maybe 1.5 inches instead of the usual 4 inches or more.
>
> I couldn't find a picture in a quick search. But if you took this set
> of clips:http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=details&sku=TC1127
> and cut them off just left of the "Winwood" logo, you'd have a set of
> strapless mini-clips.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
Hi Frank & the OP.
Here is the URL to an image of Zefal mini toe-clips:
>http://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk/public/index.php/product/toeclips/TC945L.html?Fisherpublic=76pv0in9mkbohdntga5humufj4<
Cheers from Peter
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 19:54:10
From:
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
On Jul 11, 7:12 pm, dhudes <dhu...@stevens.edu > wrote:
> On Jul 11, 6:50 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> > You might consider starting with the strapless mini-clips, if those
> > are still available. (If not, tin snips would produce them from a set
> > of regular toe clips.) Once they got used to that, try clips and
> > loose straps. Then cinch down - or go to clipless.
>
> Could you elaborate or give a product pointer for these "strapless
> mini-clips"? I don't quite comprehend them, perhaps you could describe
> some additional details?
>
> Thanks
They're toe clips that extend just over the top of the toes, not over
the top of the foot, and they have no straps at all. IOW, they curl
back, oh, maybe 1.5 inches instead of the usual 4 inches or more.
I couldn't find a picture in a quick search. But if you took this set
of clips:
http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=details&sku=TC1127
and cut them off just left of the "Winwood" logo, you'd have a set of
strapless mini-clips.
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 12 Jul 2007 00:13:30
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
>> frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> You might consider starting with the strapless mini-clips, if those
>>> are still available. (If not, tin snips would produce them from a set
>>> of regular toe clips.) Once they got used to that, try clips and
>>> loose straps. Then cinch down - or go to clipless.
> dhudes <dhu...@stevens.edu> wrote:
>> Could you elaborate or give a product pointer for these "strapless
>> mini-clips"? I don't quite comprehend them, perhaps you could describe
>> some additional details?
frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
> They're toe clips that extend just over the top of the toes, not over
> the top of the foot, and they have no straps at all. IOW, they curl
> back, oh, maybe 1.5 inches instead of the usual 4 inches or more.
>
> I couldn't find a picture in a quick search. But if you took this set
> of clips:
> http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=details&sku=TC1127
> and cut them off just left of the "Winwood" logo, you'd have a set of
> strapless mini-clips.
Zefal half-clips shown here:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/toeclip.html
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 19:44:52
From:
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
On Jul 11, 8:24 pm, "Joe" <simpson9...@bellsouth.net > wrote:
> Being young I would hesitate to lock their knees in at
> this point. I know running and weight training is restricted to a degree
> for young children and my fear is that toe clips could cause injuries.
That's a very good point.
Despite many years of cycling using toe clips - without cleats, and
usually pretty loose - my daughter had some knee problems when she
first went clipless. If you're going to really fasten feet to pedals,
it's got to be done precisely right for that person.
And kids won't be able to give the precise feedback needed to make
sure it's done right.
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 19:41:28
From:
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
On Jul 11, 7:39 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:12:20 -0700, dhudes <dhu...@stevens.edu> wrote:
> >The mechanical advantage of clipless pedals is power on the upstroke:
> >you are pulling up.
>
> [snip]
>
> Dear DH,
>
> Pulling up is mostly wishful thinking.
Yep. The "pulling up" idea is another one of those persistent myths,
widely believed although thoroughly disproven.
> Here's a Robert Chung graph
> showing how much a group of 14 riders pulled up in testing by Steve
> Kautz:
>
> http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/kautz.png
BTW, none of this means pulling up is absolutely impossible. I'm sure
at least some riders can do it for a short while at low cadences. But
in general, it hardly ever happens, even with those riders who think
they are doing it.
> Another possible argument is that the clipless pedals allow _reducing_
> the amount of negative pressure on the pedal on the back-stroke
And of course, that produces more torque, because your forward leg
isn't working quite as hard to lift your rearward leg.
But note that you don't really need to be strongly connected to the
pedal for that to work. You just need to be sure your foot won't
slide around too badly when you accidentally exert a force that isn't
straight up, so to speak.
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 21:28:12
From: John Thompson
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
On 2007-07-11, dhudes <dhudes@stevens.edu > wrote:
> My 2 daughters, 8-1/2 and 10-1/2 are getting into bicycling. They love
> to go with me but their steel frame department store bikes, bascially
> MTB frames with no shocks and wide tires on 20" for the younger and
> 22" wheels for the older, are relatively heavy and the girls have
> trouble with hills, though they are young strong and determined. I
> ride a hybrid with clipless pedals and MTB shoes and have experienced
> the dramatic improvement in efficiency after having switched out the
> platform pedals for shimano MTB clipless pedals. I would like to
> improve my daughters' pedaling efficiency so they can better enjoy
> cycling but I am concerned with practicality and safety.
A tandem with a kidback attachment is a great way to get children into
cycling. Toe clips or clipless pedals are both appropriate.
--
John (john@os2.dhs.org)
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 20:24:03
From: Joe
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
I have had knee surgery and find the toe clips put too much stain on my
knees. I switched to speedplays x2 and in a week lost most of the
discomfort.
Where is this going? Being young I would hesitate to lock their knees in at
this point. I know running and weight training is restricted to a degree
for young children and my fear is that toe clips could cause injuries.
I would give anything to have my knees a 100%. I would leave the pedals as
they are and look at gears or other solutions. Sorry, if that does not
really answer your question with a specific answer.
"dhudes" <dhudes@stevens.edu > wrote in message
news:1184179828.002918.232260@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> My 2 daughters, 8-1/2 and 10-1/2 are getting into bicycling. They love
> to go with me but their steel frame department store bikes, bascially
> MTB frames with no shocks and wide tires on 20" for the younger and
> 22" wheels for the older, are relatively heavy and the girls have
> trouble with hills, though they are young strong and determined. I
> ride a hybrid with clipless pedals and MTB shoes and have experienced
> the dramatic improvement in efficiency after having switched out the
> platform pedals for shimano MTB clipless pedals. I would like to
> improve my daughters' pedaling efficiency so they can better enjoy
> cycling but I am concerned with practicality and safety.
>
> Clipless pedals might prove too much task loading for them especially
> the younger. There is also the concern of the effect on growing feet
> and frankly the expense of bicycle shoes (if indeed I could even get
> them in their size; bicycle shorts were difficult enough to find but
> Perl Izumi does have youth sizes that some dealers carry).
>
> Toe clips seem, in abstract, an appropriate solution but I'd
> appreciate feedback on this from anyone with any experience with
> children and toe clips.
>
|
| |
Date: 11 Jul 2007 19:45:50
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
"dhudes" who? wrote:
> My 2 daughters, 8-1/2 and 10-1/2 are getting into bicycling. They love
> to go with me but their steel frame department store bikes, bascially
> MTB frames with no shocks and wide tires on 20" for the younger and
> 22" wheels for the older, are relatively heavy and the girls have
> trouble with hills, though they are young strong and determined. I
> ride a hybrid with clipless pedals and MTB shoes and have experienced
> the dramatic improvement in efficiency after having switched out the
> platform pedals for shimano MTB clipless pedals. I would like to
> improve my daughters' pedaling efficiency so they can better enjoy
> cycling but I am concerned with practicality and safety.
>
> Clipless pedals might prove too much task loading for them especially
> the younger. There is also the concern of the effect on growing feet
> and frankly the expense of bicycle shoes (if indeed I could even get
> them in their size; bicycle shorts were difficult enough to find but
> Perl Izumi does have youth sizes that some dealers carry).
>
> Toe clips seem, in abstract, an appropriate solution but I'd
> appreciate feedback on this from anyone with any experience with
> children and toe clips.
Toe clips and straps are of no practical use unless used with cleats and
tight straps. Even when loose, a rider's shoe can get caught by the
strap, trapping the foot [1].
For riding in street shoes and/or avoiding clipless systems, Power Grips
are the way to go: <http://www.ekosport.com/pg_benefits.shtml >. They
will attach to many platform pedals.
[1] I have bled to prove this.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 21:16:41
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 19:45:50 -0500, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:
>Toe clips and straps are of no practical use unless used with cleats and
>tight straps.
You're mistaken. With sneakers there is a lot more control of the
bike and ability to pedal out of the saddle with clips and straps but
no cleats.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 12 Jul 2007 00:41:42
From: Claire Petersky
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
"dhudes" <dhudes@stevens.edu > wrote in message
news:1184179828.002918.232260@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Toe clips seem, in abstract, an appropriate solution but I'd
> appreciate feedback on this from anyone with any experience with
> children and toe clips.
My girls adapted to power grips at about age 10 without any difficulty.
--
Warm Regards,
Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 19:52:04
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
Claire Petersky aka Mother Hen wrote:
> "dhudes" <dhudes@stevens.edu> wrote in message
> news:1184179828.002918.232260@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Toe clips seem, in abstract, an appropriate solution but I'd
>> appreciate feedback on this from anyone with any experience with
>> children and toe clips.
>
>
> My girls adapted to power grips at about age 10 without any difficulty.
A sensible parenting decision.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| |
Date: 11 Jul 2007 16:12:20
From: dhudes
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
On Jul 11, 6:50 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 11, 2:50 pm, dhudes <dhu...@stevens.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > My 2 daughters, 8-1/2 and 10-1/2 are getting into bicycling. They love
> > to go with me but their steel frame department store bikes, bascially
> > MTB frames with no shocks and wide tires on 20" for the younger and
> > 22" wheels for the older, are relatively heavy and the girls have
> > trouble with hills, though they are young strong and determined. I
> > ride a hybrid with clipless pedals and MTB shoes and have experienced
> > the dramatic improvement in efficiency after having switched out the
> > platform pedals for shimano MTB clipless pedals. I would like to
> > improve my daughters' pedaling efficiency so they can better enjoy
> > cycling but I am concerned with practicality and safety.
>
> > Clipless pedals might prove too much task loading for them especially
> > the younger. There is also the concern of the effect on growing feet
> > and frankly the expense of bicycle shoes (if indeed I could even get
> > them in their size; bicycle shorts were difficult enough to find but
> > Perl Izumi does have youth sizes that some dealers carry).
>
> > Toe clips seem, in abstract, an appropriate solution but I'd
> > appreciate feedback on this from anyone with any experience with
> > children and toe clips.
>
> Hmm. Personally, I'm inclined to think the advantage from fastening
> feet to the pedals isn't all that large. I know people talk about
> "dramatic" improvements, and I'm sure there is some, but I wonder how
> much is psychological. Thinking biomechanically, it's hard for me to
> see where the extra energy would come from.
>
The mechanical advantage of clipless pedals is power on the upstroke:
you are pulling up. Also when you pedal your feet don't slide around.
Finally, bicycle shoes have a more rigid sole than sneakers so you get
a more efficient transfer of energy from feet to pedal. this, like
bicycle weight, is not a cure-all: the rider's fitness plays a larger
role. When riding my hybrid do I pass people on road bikes that weigh
10lbs less because I have clipless pedals or because I'm a stronger
rider? Both (the strong riders on road bikes pass me when I'm at 20mph
like I'm standing still; I ride with a woman some 10 years younger
than I who has a road bike but no toe clips nor clipless pedals, I
cannot keep up going uphill but on the flats its no problem).
> Anyway - I think we gave our son toe clips when he was about ten years
> old. He adapted without problems. Our daughter started riding on the
> back of the tandem (a kid-back adapter) and had them there from the
> start, but got them on her single only after a few years with a 24"
> wheel derailleur-geared bike.
>
> But we almost always have the straps loose, for easy exit. In that
> mode, the clips and straps don't fasten you to the pedal; they just
> guarantee your feet sit in the (hopefully) optimum position.
>
> You might consider starting with the strapless mini-clips, if those
> are still available. (If not, tin snips would produce them from a set
> of regular toe clips.) Once they got used to that, try clips and
> loose straps. Then cinch down - or go to clipless.
>
> - Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Could you elaborate or give a product pointer for these "strapless
mini-clips"? I don't quite comprehend them, perhaps you could describe
some additional details?
Thanks
|
| | |
Date: 11 Jul 2007 17:39:25
From:
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:12:20 -0700, dhudes <dhudes@stevens.edu > wrote:
>The mechanical advantage of clipless pedals is power on the upstroke:
>you are pulling up.
[snip]
Dear DH,
Pulling up is mostly wishful thinking. Here's a Robert Chung graph
showing how much a group of 14 riders pulled up in testing by Steve
Kautz:
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/kautz.png
Here are the details for the graph, in 1-degree increments:
http://isbweb.org/data/kautz/highw.avg
And here's the test:
http://isbweb.org/data/kautz/
Other tests show similar trivial amounts of pulling-up effect. At
typical cadences, strain gauges on the pedals fail to show the
hoped-for effect.
Wild sprinters and insane climbers _may_ produce useful force pulling
up, but it's darned hard to pull up--when standing--with one leg while
still pushing down with the other leg with maximum effort. Because the
pulling-up muscles are so weak in comparison to the pushing-down
muscles, what felt like a huge effort to pull up is often
embarrassingly tiny when measured.
Another possible argument is that the clipless pedals allow _reducing_
the amount of negative pressure on the pedal on the back-stroke
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 16:11:16
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
On Jul 11, 3:59 pm, dhudes <dhu...@stevens.edu > wrote:
> Oh, sorry I should have mentioned that detail. Yes, the younger one
> has a 5 speed (one chain ring), the elder has a triple chain ring and
> 5 gears.
My humble is to stay with open platform pedals for safety, at those
ages. I bet someone will post about knowing kids at your oldest girl's
age who use either straps or clipless pedals, though. Once the clip-
out is easy and automatic, it's better (opinion) to have the foot
located securely on the pedal. Straps and kid shoes could be a
difficult combination-- like that bumper strip around the front of old-
fashioned sneakers. "Ask me how I know" <g >.
Too bad kids' bikes tend to be so heavy. My son, 7-1/2 now, really had
to grind to get up neighborhood hills when he first started riding his
sister's old 6-speed twist shifter bike.
> The elder girl's bike is much like a regular bike in appearance but
> smaller -- the pedals look like regular platforms. The younger one has
> a bigger-size little girls bike complete with flower decorations (and
> floral decorations she's quite fond of that clip onto the spokes) and
> the pedals are pink plastic (both girls required that their bikes have
> a pink paint job all over, I think if they could have pink tires they
> would love it).
My 13 year old had a pink bike, white basket, white tires, flowers,
and pink streamers when she was little. Little Kitty motif, IMS. She
got a ribbon or two at the Alkek (Houston) Velodrome kid races on it.
Single speed, but it did freewheel <g >. Not a hill bike, for sure.
Maybe lower gears? Is changing out a freewheel a possibility? --D-y
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 22:50:26
From:
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
On Jul 11, 2:50 pm, dhudes <dhu...@stevens.edu > wrote:
> My 2 daughters, 8-1/2 and 10-1/2 are getting into bicycling. They love
> to go with me but their steel frame department store bikes, bascially
> MTB frames with no shocks and wide tires on 20" for the younger and
> 22" wheels for the older, are relatively heavy and the girls have
> trouble with hills, though they are young strong and determined. I
> ride a hybrid with clipless pedals and MTB shoes and have experienced
> the dramatic improvement in efficiency after having switched out the
> platform pedals for shimano MTB clipless pedals. I would like to
> improve my daughters' pedaling efficiency so they can better enjoy
> cycling but I am concerned with practicality and safety.
>
> Clipless pedals might prove too much task loading for them especially
> the younger. There is also the concern of the effect on growing feet
> and frankly the expense of bicycle shoes (if indeed I could even get
> them in their size; bicycle shorts were difficult enough to find but
> Perl Izumi does have youth sizes that some dealers carry).
>
> Toe clips seem, in abstract, an appropriate solution but I'd
> appreciate feedback on this from anyone with any experience with
> children and toe clips.
Hmm. Personally, I'm inclined to think the advantage from fastening
feet to the pedals isn't all that large. I know people talk about
"dramatic" improvements, and I'm sure there is some, but I wonder how
much is psychological. Thinking biomechanically, it's hard for me to
see where the extra energy would come from.
Anyway - I think we gave our son toe clips when he was about ten years
old. He adapted without problems. Our daughter started riding on the
back of the tandem (a kid-back adapter) and had them there from the
start, but got them on her single only after a few years with a 24"
wheel derailleur-geared bike.
But we almost always have the straps loose, for easy exit. In that
mode, the clips and straps don't fasten you to the pedal; they just
guarantee your feet sit in the (hopefully) optimum position.
You might consider starting with the strapless mini-clips, if those
are still available. (If not, tin snips would produce them from a set
of regular toe clips.) Once they got used to that, try clips and
loose straps. Then cinch down - or go to clipless.
- Frank Krygowski
|
| | |
Date: 12 Jul 2007 17:05:58
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
In article
<1184194226.922054.67720@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >,
frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
> Hmm. Personally, I'm inclined to think the advantage from fastening
> feet to the pedals isn't all that large. I know people talk about
> "dramatic" improvements, and I'm sure there is some, but I wonder how
> much is psychological. Thinking biomechanically, it's hard for me to
> see where the extra energy would come from.
The advantage is huge. No mental of physical effort is expended
keeping the feet on the pedals.
Go on a two hour fast ride with no pedal-foot binding.
--
Michael Press
|
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 19:38:49
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
frkrygow@gmail.com aka Frank Krygowski wrote:
> ...
> Hmm. Personally, I'm inclined to think the advantage from fastening
> feet to the pedals isn't all that large. I know people talk about
> "dramatic" improvements, and I'm sure there is some, but I wonder how
> much is psychological. Thinking biomechanically, it's hard for me to
> see where the extra energy would come from....
If you were more laid back, you would understand.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | |
Date: 11 Jul 2007 19:21:54
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:50:26 -0000, frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
>Personally, I'm inclined to think the advantage from fastening
>feet to the pedals isn't all that large. I know people talk about
>"dramatic" improvements, and I'm sure there is some, but I wonder how
>much is psychological. Thinking biomechanically, it's hard for me to
>see where the extra energy would come from.
Yeah, I doubt there is much significant gain in power from pulling up.
The advantage of fastening feet to pedals is it let's the rider pedal
with more abandon, spending less general energy keeping the foot on
the pedal. This can help in propulsion and even in control.
I think for a kid pedalling uphill at low RPMs it might not help much.
But I doubt it would hurt if the kids are into it.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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| | | |
Date: 11 Jul 2007 19:41:14
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:50:26 -0000, frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Personally, I'm inclined to think the advantage from fastening
>> feet to the pedals isn't all that large. I know people talk about
>> "dramatic" improvements, and I'm sure there is some, but I wonder how
>> much is psychological. Thinking biomechanically, it's hard for me to
>> see where the extra energy would come from.
>
> Yeah, I doubt there is much significant gain in power from pulling up.
>
> The advantage of fastening feet to pedals is it let's the rider pedal
> with more abandon, spending less general energy keeping the foot on
> the pedal. This can help in propulsion and even in control....
Especially for us anti-Brandts (physiologically speaking) who like to
climb with low gears and high cadence.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | |
Date: 11 Jul 2007 19:20:05
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:50:26 -0000, frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
>On Jul 11, 2:50 pm, dhudes <dhu...@stevens.edu> wrote:
>> My 2 daughters, 8-1/2 and 10-1/2 are getting into bicycling. They love
>> to go with me but their steel frame department store bikes, bascially
>> MTB frames with no shocks and wide tires on 20" for the younger and
>> 22" wheels for the older, are relatively heavy and the girls have
>> trouble with hills, though they are young strong and determined. I
>> ride a hybrid with clipless pedals and MTB shoes and have experienced
>> the dramatic improvement in efficiency after having switched out the
>> platform pedals for shimano MTB clipless pedals. I would like to
>> improve my daughters' pedaling efficiency so they can better enjoy
>> cycling but I am concerned with practicality and safety.
>>
>> Clipless pedals might prove too much task loading for them especially
>> the younger. There is also the concern of the effect on growing feet
>> and frankly the expense of bicycle shoes (if indeed I could even get
>> them in their size; bicycle shorts were difficult enough to find but
>> Perl Izumi does have youth sizes that some dealers carry).
>>
>> Toe clips seem, in abstract, an appropriate solution but I'd
>> appreciate feedback on this from anyone with any experience with
>> children and toe clips.
>
>Hmm. Personally, I'm inclined to think the advantage from fastening
>feet to the pedals isn't all that large. I know people talk about
>"dramatic" improvements, and I'm sure there is some, but I wonder how
>much is psychological. Thinking biomechanically, it's hard for me to
>see where the extra energy would come from.
>
>Anyway - I think we gave our son toe clips when he was about ten years
>old. He adapted without problems. Our daughter started riding on the
>back of the tandem (a kid-back adapter) and had them there from the
>start, but got them on her single only after a few years with a 24"
>wheel derailleur-geared bike.
>
>But we almost always have the straps loose, for easy exit. In that
>mode, the clips and straps don't fasten you to the pedal; they just
>guarantee your feet sit in the (hopefully) optimum position.
>
>You might consider starting with the strapless mini-clips, if those
>are still available. (If not, tin snips would produce them from a set
>of regular toe clips.) Once they got used to that, try clips and
>loose straps. Then cinch down - or go to clipless.
>
>- Frank Krygowski
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
| |
Date: 11 Jul 2007 13:59:31
From: dhudes
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
Oh, sorry I should have mentioned that detail. Yes, the younger one
has a 5 speed (one chain ring), the elder has a triple chain ring and
5 gears.
The elder girl's bike is much like a regular bike in appearance but
smaller -- the pedals look like regular platforms. The younger one has
a bigger-size little girls bike complete with flower decorations (and
floral decorations she's quite fond of that clip onto the spokes) and
the pedals are pink plastic (both girls required that their bikes have
a pink paint job all over, I think if they could have pink tires they
would love it).
On Jul 11, 4:22 pm, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com > wrote:
> On Jul 11, 1:50 pm, dhudes <dhu...@stevens.edu> wrote:
>
> > Toe clips seem, in abstract, an appropriate solution but I'd
> > appreciate feedback on this from anyone with any experience with
> > children and toe clips.
>
> Are their bikes multi-geared? --D-y
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| | |
Date: 11 Jul 2007 19:48:23
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
|
"dhudes" who? wrote:
> ...The younger one has
> a bigger-size little girls bike complete with flower decorations (and
> floral decorations she's quite fond of that clip onto the spokes) and
> the pedals are pink plastic (both girls required that their bikes have
> a pink paint job all over, I think if they could have pink tires they
> would love it)....
The only tires for girls' bicycles:
<http://www.nirve.com/largeimage.asp?id=1681 >.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 21:17:48
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
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On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 19:48:23 -0500, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
>The only tires for girls' bicycles:
><http://www.nirve.com/largeimage.asp?id=1681>.
Cute.
--
JT
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 17:06:45
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
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On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:59:31 -0700, dhudes <dhudes@stevens.edu > wrote:
>The elder girl's bike is much like a regular bike in appearance but
>smaller -- the pedals look like regular platforms. The younger one has
>a bigger-size little girls bike complete with flower decorations (and
>floral decorations she's quite fond of that clip onto the spokes) and
>the pedals are pink plastic (both girls required that their bikes have
>a pink paint job all over, I think if they could have pink tires they
>would love it).
A little girl who lives in my building had a pink bike with pink
decoration and white tires. And I must admit it looked very fly.
Though the tires did get dirty.
--
JT
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 23:54:22
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
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> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:59:31 -0700, dhudes <dhudes@stevens.edu> wrote:
>> The elder girl's bike is much like a regular bike in appearance but
>> smaller -- the pedals look like regular platforms. The younger one has
>> a bigger-size little girls bike complete with flower decorations (and
>> floral decorations she's quite fond of that clip onto the spokes) and
>> the pedals are pink plastic (both girls required that their bikes have
>> a pink paint job all over, I think if they could have pink tires they
>> would love it).
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> A little girl who lives in my building had a pink bike with pink
> decoration and white tires. And I must admit it looked very fly.
> Though the tires did get dirty.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/DREAMGRL.JPG
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 13:22:24
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: kids and toe clips
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On Jul 11, 1:50 pm, dhudes <dhu...@stevens.edu > wrote:
> Toe clips seem, in abstract, an appropriate solution but I'd
> appreciate feedback on this from anyone with any experience with
> children and toe clips.
Are their bikes multi-geared? --D-y
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