| |
Main
Date: 06 May 2007 23:44:44
From: Callistus Valerius
Subject: mirage shifters are crude
|
I did buy some mirage ergo shifters on some recommendations from my
readings here. I just left them in the box, till I was going to do
something with them, so now I'm examining them. They kind of seem crude,
almost barbaric compared to the slick, precise shifting of a Shimano, I was
kind of surprised. It looks like some crude ratcheting motion, that takes
some effort. Maybe they'll be better when I get the cables in them. I hope
they live up to the raves I read in here. I know Shimano's break, but they
don't break very often. I had 1 left Shimano break after 20,000 miles, and
I think it was from my abuse, due to forcing shifts, with Gatorade gu
gumming up the cable under the bb. I have another set going on 30,000
miles, and another set over 10,000 miles with out problem. I have one set
half cocked open with a rubber shim for a shorter reach, and I'm sure a lot
of dust, rain have gone into the mech, and it stills works perfect. Now I'm
going to stay open-minded about this mirage shifter, and maybe I'll be a
convert.
|
|
| |
Date: 08 May 2007 15:50:10
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
On May 8, 3:10 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <slrnf41rh8.aoq.spams...@bowser.marioworld>,
> Ben C <spams...@spam.eggs> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2007-05-08, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > In article <1178605103.568220.215...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> > > Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> > [...]
> > >> Oh, but the other side of that, is that while STI can downshift
> > >> the rear without letting up on either brake, with Jim's setup,
> > >> he'd still have to let up on the rear brake to drop a ring.
>
> > >> Six of one, half-dozen of the other.
>
> > > Well, there's no free lunch. You pick your priorities. Of course,
> > > I've gone back to downtube friction shifting from STI and Ergo,
> > > except for my tandem which doesn't have downtube shifter bosses.
>
> > Can't you get a sort of wraparound frame clamp for that? My last bike
> > with DT shifters had one.
>
> Interesting suggestion. The ones I've have seen and/or had are steel
> and made for standard dimension steel tubes, not OS tubes- from the
> "bike boom" years. But maybe I just haven't seen the right one. I
> hadn't thought to look in the QBP Problem Solver line, etc., to see if
> there is a modern variant for modern bikes. There'd be no stop on the
> frame, though, to keep the clamp from sliding.
>
> My preference for the mechanical simplicity of downtube friction
> shifting is decidedly a minority position, after all! Most people see
> STI/Ergo as big improvements in the technology of cycling. I did, too,
> back when I was racing especially in crits. Brifters were a competitive
> advantage and arguably safer in a pack. Now that I don't race and am a
> lot calmer :-o the technological advantage just isn't there for my
> uses.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Maybe a Suntour top-mount endless band shifter:
http://www.howtostretch.com/stshift.JPG
You'd have to fabricate a larger band, but I can't imagine it would be
too hard.
Or get some used or NOS Suntour Bar-Cons, with the excellent power
ratchet mechanism. Used ones go for a sawbuck or three on ebay.
|
| | |
Date: 08 May 2007 21:30:01
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
In article <1178664610.454481.284020@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com >,
Hank Wirtz <hank@wirtznet.net > wrote:
> On May 8, 3:10 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > In article <slrnf41rh8.aoq.spams...@bowser.marioworld>,
> > Ben C <spams...@spam.eggs> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 2007-05-08, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <1178605103.568220.215...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > >> Oh, but the other side of that, is that while STI can
> > > >> downshift the rear without letting up on either brake, with
> > > >> Jim's setup, he'd still have to let up on the rear brake to
> > > >> drop a ring.
> >
> > > >> Six of one, half-dozen of the other.
> >
> > > > Well, there's no free lunch. You pick your priorities. Of
> > > > course, I've gone back to downtube friction shifting from STI
> > > > and Ergo, except for my tandem which doesn't have downtube
> > > > shifter bosses.
> >
> > > Can't you get a sort of wraparound frame clamp for that? My last
> > > bike with DT shifters had one.
> >
> > Interesting suggestion. The ones I've have seen and/or had are
> > steel and made for standard dimension steel tubes, not OS tubes-
> > from the "bike boom" years. But maybe I just haven't seen the
> > right one. I hadn't thought to look in the QBP Problem Solver
> > line, etc., to see if there is a modern variant for modern bikes.
> > There'd be no stop on the frame, though, to keep the clamp from
> > sliding.
> >
> > My preference for the mechanical simplicity of downtube friction
> > shifting is decidedly a minority position, after all! Most people
> > see STI/Ergo as big improvements in the technology of cycling. I
> > did, too, back when I was racing especially in crits. Brifters
> > were a competitive advantage and arguably safer in a pack. Now
> > that I don't race and am a lot calmer :-o the technological
> > advantage just isn't there for my uses.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Maybe a Suntour top-mount endless band shifter:
> http://www.howtostretch.com/stshift.JPG
>
> You'd have to fabricate a larger band, but I can't imagine it would
> be too hard.
It could be done. It'd be a PITA with the tools (and, humph, metal
working skills) I have available, but it could be done.
> Or get some used or NOS Suntour Bar-Cons, with the excellent power
> ratchet mechanism. Used ones go for a sawbuck or three on ebay.
That was more along the lines I was thinking because it's simple (and I
have the shifters already). Swapping the levers for the Tektro Campy
copies is/was part of the plan. That raises another question and now
we're into major topic drift. Sorry!
The bike came with Tektro "shorty" V-brakes which just barely work with
the Shimano 105 brifters using inline cable adjusters (V-brakes are a
damned kludge with anything but MTB levers designed for them). Anyone
know the relative cable pulls for the 105s, Campy Ergo and the Tektro
levers? I know the Tektros work OK with cantis from experience and
switching to cantis would be an option. Thanks!
|
| |
Date: 07 May 2007 23:18:23
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
On May 7, 11:13 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net > wrote:
> On May 7, 9:12 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <slrnf3tv49.2n8.spams...@bowser.marioworld>,
> > Ben C <spams...@spam.eggs> wrote:
>
> > > On 2007-05-07, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote: [...]
> > > >> put another way, it's much harder to shift while braking with
> > > >> campy. personally, i much prefer shimano for that reason.
>
> > > > especially as i'm a motorcycle braking [right hand front] kinda
> > > > guy.
>
> > > It's a pity you can't have the front brake and the front derailleur
> > > both on the right. But I think left and right ergos are different.
>
> > Why would you want the front derailleur controlled by the right hand
> > brifter? I understand the braking preference, but not the shifting.
>
> He wants to brake with his right hand and be able to shift the rear
> simultaneously.
>
> I know what he's talking about - at the beginning of my ride home from
> work, there's a 10% grade downhill for the first mile, with a busy
> intersection at the bottom where I turn left. As I get to the bottom
> and brake hard, I use my left thumb to dump a chainring, then as I
> approach the stop sign, I let up on the rear brake and downshift to
> the middle of the cassette, so I can ride from a full stop when It's
> clear to take my left. If I still ran my brakes right-hand-front
> (which I did for about 20 years, then switched back 3 years ago), I
> can totally see where Jim's coming from.
>
> Holy crap, never thought I'd say that...
Oh, but the other side of that, is that while STI can downshift the
rear without letting up on either brake, with Jim's setup, he'd still
have to let up on the rear brake to drop a ring.
Six of one, half-dozen of the other.
|
| | |
Date: 08 May 2007 16:14:40
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
In article <1178605103.568220.215290@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >,
Hank Wirtz <hank@wirtznet.net > wrote:
> On May 7, 11:13 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> > On May 7, 9:12 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <slrnf3tv49.2n8.spams...@bowser.marioworld>,
> > > Ben C <spams...@spam.eggs> wrote:
> >
> > > > On 2007-05-07, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> > > > [...]
> > > > >> put another way, it's much harder to shift while braking
> > > > >> with campy. personally, i much prefer shimano for that
> > > > >> reason.
> >
> > > > > especially as i'm a motorcycle braking [right hand front]
> > > > > kinda guy.
> >
> > > > It's a pity you can't have the front brake and the front
> > > > derailleur both on the right. But I think left and right ergos
> > > > are different.
> >
> > > Why would you want the front derailleur controlled by the right
> > > hand brifter? I understand the braking preference, but not the
> > > shifting.
> >
> > He wants to brake with his right hand and be able to shift the rear
> > simultaneously.
> >
> > I know what he's talking about - at the beginning of my ride home
> > from work, there's a 10% grade downhill for the first mile, with a
> > busy intersection at the bottom where I turn left. As I get to the
> > bottom and brake hard, I use my left thumb to dump a chainring,
> > then as I approach the stop sign, I let up on the rear brake and
> > downshift to the middle of the cassette, so I can ride from a full
> > stop when It's clear to take my left. If I still ran my brakes
> > right-hand-front (which I did for about 20 years, then switched
> > back 3 years ago), I can totally see where Jim's coming from.
> >
> > Holy crap, never thought I'd say that...
>
> Oh, but the other side of that, is that while STI can downshift the
> rear without letting up on either brake, with Jim's setup, he'd still
> have to let up on the rear brake to drop a ring.
>
> Six of one, half-dozen of the other.
Well, there's no free lunch. You pick your priorities. Of course, I've
gone back to downtube friction shifting from STI and Ergo, except for my
tandem which doesn't have downtube shifter bosses. I want to switch
that over to bar-end shifters or Campy levers some day. I don't like
the STI levers- I don't like the brake lever being also used to shift.
|
| | | |
Date: 08 May 2007 16:42:02
From: Ben C
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
On 2007-05-08, Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <1178605103.568220.215290@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> Hank Wirtz <hank@wirtznet.net> wrote:
[...]
>> Oh, but the other side of that, is that while STI can downshift the
>> rear without letting up on either brake, with Jim's setup, he'd still
>> have to let up on the rear brake to drop a ring.
>>
>> Six of one, half-dozen of the other.
>
> Well, there's no free lunch. You pick your priorities. Of course, I've
> gone back to downtube friction shifting from STI and Ergo, except for my
> tandem which doesn't have downtube shifter bosses.
Can't you get a sort of wraparound frame clamp for that? My last bike
with DT shifters had one.
|
| | | | |
Date: 08 May 2007 17:10:10
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
In article <slrnf41rh8.aoq.spamspam@bowser.marioworld >,
Ben C <spamspam@spam.eggs > wrote:
> On 2007-05-08, Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > In article <1178605103.568220.215290@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> > Hank Wirtz <hank@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> [...]
> >> Oh, but the other side of that, is that while STI can downshift
> >> the rear without letting up on either brake, with Jim's setup,
> >> he'd still have to let up on the rear brake to drop a ring.
> >>
> >> Six of one, half-dozen of the other.
> >
> > Well, there's no free lunch. You pick your priorities. Of course,
> > I've gone back to downtube friction shifting from STI and Ergo,
> > except for my tandem which doesn't have downtube shifter bosses.
>
> Can't you get a sort of wraparound frame clamp for that? My last bike
> with DT shifters had one.
Interesting suggestion. The ones I've have seen and/or had are steel
and made for standard dimension steel tubes, not OS tubes- from the
"bike boom" years. But maybe I just haven't seen the right one. I
hadn't thought to look in the QBP Problem Solver line, etc., to see if
there is a modern variant for modern bikes. There'd be no stop on the
frame, though, to keep the clamp from sliding.
My preference for the mechanical simplicity of downtube friction
shifting is decidedly a minority position, after all! Most people see
STI/Ergo as big improvements in the technology of cycling. I did, too,
back when I was racing especially in crits. Brifters were a competitive
advantage and arguably safer in a pack. Now that I don't race and am a
lot calmer :-o the technological advantage just isn't there for my
uses.
|
| | |
Date: 08 May 2007 06:07:32
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
Hank Wirtz wrote:
> On May 7, 11:13 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>> On May 7, 9:12 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <slrnf3tv49.2n8.spams...@bowser.marioworld>,
>>> Ben C <spams...@spam.eggs> wrote:
>>>> On 2007-05-07, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote: [...]
>>>>>> put another way, it's much harder to shift while braking with
>>>>>> campy. personally, i much prefer shimano for that reason.
>>>>> especially as i'm a motorcycle braking [right hand front] kinda
>>>>> guy.
>>>> It's a pity you can't have the front brake and the front derailleur
>>>> both on the right. But I think left and right ergos are different.
>>> Why would you want the front derailleur controlled by the right hand
>>> brifter? I understand the braking preference, but not the shifting.
>> He wants to brake with his right hand and be able to shift the rear
>> simultaneously.
>>
>> I know what he's talking about - at the beginning of my ride home from
>> work, there's a 10% grade downhill for the first mile, with a busy
>> intersection at the bottom where I turn left. As I get to the bottom
>> and brake hard, I use my left thumb to dump a chainring, then as I
>> approach the stop sign, I let up on the rear brake and downshift to
>> the middle of the cassette, so I can ride from a full stop when It's
>> clear to take my left. If I still ran my brakes right-hand-front
>> (which I did for about 20 years, then switched back 3 years ago), I
>> can totally see where Jim's coming from.
>>
>> Holy crap, never thought I'd say that...
>
> Oh, but the other side of that, is that while STI can downshift the
> rear without letting up on either brake, with Jim's setup, he'd still
> have to let up on the rear brake to drop a ring.
>
> Six of one, half-dozen of the other.
>
right. but maybe 7-5 - i think the rear the most important.
|
| |
Date: 07 May 2007 23:13:09
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
On May 7, 9:12 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <slrnf3tv49.2n8.spams...@bowser.marioworld>,
> Ben C <spams...@spam.eggs> wrote:
>
> > On 2007-05-07, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote: [...]
> > >> put another way, it's much harder to shift while braking with
> > >> campy. personally, i much prefer shimano for that reason.
>
> > > especially as i'm a motorcycle braking [right hand front] kinda
> > > guy.
>
> > It's a pity you can't have the front brake and the front derailleur
> > both on the right. But I think left and right ergos are different.
>
> Why would you want the front derailleur controlled by the right hand
> brifter? I understand the braking preference, but not the shifting.
He wants to brake with his right hand and be able to shift the rear
simultaneously.
I know what he's talking about - at the beginning of my ride home from
work, there's a 10% grade downhill for the first mile, with a busy
intersection at the bottom where I turn left. As I get to the bottom
and brake hard, I use my left thumb to dump a chainring, then as I
approach the stop sign, I let up on the rear brake and downshift to
the middle of the cassette, so I can ride from a full stop when It's
clear to take my left. If I still ran my brakes right-hand-front
(which I did for about 20 years, then switched back 3 years ago), I
can totally see where Jim's coming from.
Holy crap, never thought I'd say that...
|
| | |
Date: 08 May 2007 16:11:52
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
In article <1178604789.361020.203120@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >,
Hank Wirtz <hank@wirtznet.net > wrote:
> On May 7, 9:12 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > In article <slrnf3tv49.2n8.spams...@bowser.marioworld>,
> > Ben C <spams...@spam.eggs> wrote:
> >
> > > On 2007-05-07, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote: [...]
> > > >> put another way, it's much harder to shift while braking with
> > > >> campy. personally, i much prefer shimano for that reason.
> >
> > > > especially as i'm a motorcycle braking [right hand front] kinda
> > > > guy.
> >
> > > It's a pity you can't have the front brake and the front
> > > derailleur both on the right. But I think left and right ergos
> > > are different.
> >
> > Why would you want the front derailleur controlled by the right
> > hand brifter? I understand the braking preference, but not the
> > shifting.
>
> He wants to brake with his right hand and be able to shift the rear
> simultaneously.
>
> I know what he's talking about - at the beginning of my ride home
> from work, there's a 10% grade downhill for the first mile, with a
> busy intersection at the bottom where I turn left. As I get to the
> bottom and brake hard, I use my left thumb to dump a chainring, then
> as I approach the stop sign, I let up on the rear brake and downshift
> to the middle of the cassette, so I can ride from a full stop when
> It's clear to take my left. If I still ran my brakes right-hand-front
> (which I did for about 20 years, then switched back 3 years ago), I
> can totally see where Jim's coming from.
OK, I was not visualizing correctly if this is what jim meant.
> Holy crap, never thought I'd say that...
He'll react negatively for saying this, but occasionally I find that jim
does make sense.
|
| |
Date: 07 May 2007 10:43:08
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
On May 7, 11:46 am, gill...@cs.ubc.ca (Donald Gillies) wrote:
> I believe that one of the reasons why Shimano brifters have a lighter
> action is because the whole Shimano drivetrain is "pre-worn in",
> i.e. the teeth on the rear cog are ground down, so that the rear mech
> can have a weaker return spring, so that the lever can have a lighter
> action.
>
> As a result, you pay dearly for the "lighter action" of the shimano
> units because your rear cogs will wear out sooner.
>
Has that been your actual experience, that Shimano cogs have a shorter
life than do Campy cogs? Anyone else, in either direction?
|
| |
Date: 07 May 2007 09:46:16
From: Donald Gillies
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
I believe that one of the reasons why Shimano brifters have a lighter
action is because the whole Shimano drivetrain is "pre-worn in",
i.e. the teeth on the rear cog are ground down, so that the rear mech
can have a weaker return spring, so that the lever can have a lighter
action.
As a result, you pay dearly for the "lighter action" of the shimano
units because your rear cogs will wear out sooner.
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA
|
| |
Date: 07 May 2007 07:51:08
From: amakyonin
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
On May 7, 6:18 am, Ben C <spams...@spam.eggs > wrote:
> It's a pity you can't have the front brake and the front derailleur both
> on the right. But I think left and right ergos are different.
I seem to recall reading somewhere about a person with an unusable,
maimed right hand who transferred the guts of a Campy right shifter
over to the left hand side and used a left side downtube shifter for
the front derailleur. He had to fabricate a mirror copy of one
component to get it to work.
|
| | |
Date: 07 May 2007 20:56:52
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
amakyonin wrote:
> On May 7, 6:18 am, Ben C <spams...@spam.eggs> wrote:
>> It's a pity you can't have the front brake and the front derailleur both
>> on the right. But I think left and right ergos are different.
>
> I seem to recall reading somewhere about a person with an unusable,
> maimed right hand who transferred the guts of a Campy right shifter
> over to the left hand side and used a left side downtube shifter for
> the front derailleur. He had to fabricate a mirror copy of one
> component to get it to work.
>
indeed, that would be necessary. or just use shimano to make life easier.
|
| | | |
Date: 07 May 2007 23:15:18
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
In article <s4-dnUX8-KuZaKLbnZ2dnUVZ_tLinZ2d@speakeasy.net >,
jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote:
> amakyonin wrote:
> > On May 7, 6:18 am, Ben C <spams...@spam.eggs> wrote:
> >> It's a pity you can't have the front brake and the front
> >> derailleur both on the right. But I think left and right ergos are
> >> different.
> >
> > I seem to recall reading somewhere about a person with an unusable,
> > maimed right hand who transferred the guts of a Campy right shifter
> > over to the left hand side and used a left side downtube shifter
> > for the front derailleur. He had to fabricate a mirror copy of one
> > component to get it to work.
> >
> indeed, that would be necessary. or just use shimano to make life
> easier.
I don't see what you're referring to. How would it be easier to put the
rear derailleur control in the left hand brifter with the Shimano
system? Disassembly of Shimano brifters isn't really convenient, and
the cable exit faces the wrong way. Or maybe I'm just not visualizing
your suggestion properly.
|
| |
Date: 07 May 2007 07:26:25
From: russellseaton1@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
On May 6, 6:44 pm, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I did buy some mirage ergo shifters on some recommendations from my
> readings here. I just left them in the box, till I was going to do
> something with them, so now I'm examining them. They kind of seem crude,
> almost barbaric compared to the slick, precise shifting of a Shimano, I was
> kind of surprised. It looks like some crude ratcheting motion, that takes
> some effort. Maybe they'll be better when I get the cables in them. I hope
> they live up to the raves I read in here.
[parts cut]
> Now I'm
> going to stay open-minded about this mirage shifter, and maybe I'll be a
> convert.
Yep. Be open minded.
|
| | |
Date: 07 May 2007 14:56:57
From: Callistus Valerius
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
>
> > Now I'm
> > going to stay open-minded about this mirage shifter, and maybe I'll be a
> > convert.
>
> Yep. Be open minded.
--------
I've hooked up the fd cable, and it does feel different, much better.
In the box, I thought they were broke. Seems like you can trim it, however
you want, so I'll see how that works. I kept pushing on the brake lever to
shift, now I'll have to think when I shift, don't push the brake lever. I
guess after 100,000 miles on Shimano's I'll have re-train my fingers. I did
a Sora a long time ago, but I think even on a Sora you pushed the brake
lever to shift.
|
| |
Date: 07 May 2007 09:08:00
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
On Sun, 06 May 2007 23:44:44 GMT, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com >
wrote:
> I did buy some mirage ergo shifters on some recommendations from my
>readings here. I just left them in the box, till I was going to do
>something with them, so now I'm examining them. They kind of seem crude,
>almost barbaric compared to the slick, precise shifting of a Shimano, I was
>kind of surprised. It looks like some crude ratcheting motion, that takes
>some effort. Maybe they'll be better when I get the cables in them. I hope
>they live up to the raves I read in here. I know Shimano's break, but they
>don't break very often. I had 1 left Shimano break after 20,000 miles, and
>I think it was from my abuse, due to forcing shifts, with Gatorade gu
>gumming up the cable under the bb. I have another set going on 30,000
>miles, and another set over 10,000 miles with out problem. I have one set
>half cocked open with a rubber shim for a shorter reach, and I'm sure a lot
>of dust, rain have gone into the mech, and it stills works perfect. Now I'm
>going to stay open-minded about this mirage shifter, and maybe I'll be a
>convert.
A lot of my experience with precise machinery is from the shooting world. The
Mirage feel more Glock like - plastic/steel assemblage built for price and
ruggedness not aesthetics. Bolted to the bars they'll feel smoother and once
broken in over a few thousand miles, better still.
They still are probably not the place to look for a sexy artifact fix.
Ron
|
| |
Date: 07 May 2007 05:28:56
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
On May 6, 5:44 pm, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I did buy some mirage ergo shifters on some recommendations from my
> readings here. I just left them in the box, till I was going to do
> something with them, so now I'm examining them. They kind of seem crude,
> almost barbaric compared to the slick, precise shifting of a Shimano, I was
> kind of surprised. It looks like some crude ratcheting motion, that takes
> some effort. Maybe they'll be better when I get the cables in them. I hope
> they live up to the raves I read in here. I know Shimano's break, but they
> don't break very often. I had 1 left Shimano break after 20,000 miles, and
> I think it was from my abuse, due to forcing shifts, with Gatorade gu
> gumming up the cable under the bb. I have another set going on 30,000
> miles, and another set over 10,000 miles with out problem. I have one set
> half cocked open with a rubber shim for a shorter reach, and I'm sure a lot
> of dust, rain have gone into the mech, and it stills works perfect. Now I'm
> going to stay open-minded about this mirage shifter, and maybe I'll be a
> convert.
Campag shifters are much more 'clicky' than shimano, with fewer of the
internal springs and such that shimano use. shimano seem 'vague' to me
and the best they will ever work is the first day oyutta the box.
Considering the price, a shift lever should fail after many, many
shifts and then should be repairable, IMO. Kinda like a auto's
transmission..they are about the same percentage of the price of a
car, fail seldom and are repairable.
|
| | |
Date: 07 May 2007 06:18:05
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> On May 6, 5:44 pm, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I did buy some mirage ergo shifters on some recommendations from my
>> readings here. I just left them in the box, till I was going to do
>> something with them, so now I'm examining them. They kind of seem crude,
>> almost barbaric compared to the slick, precise shifting of a Shimano, I was
>> kind of surprised. It looks like some crude ratcheting motion, that takes
>> some effort. Maybe they'll be better when I get the cables in them. I hope
>> they live up to the raves I read in here. I know Shimano's break, but they
>> don't break very often. I had 1 left Shimano break after 20,000 miles, and
>> I think it was from my abuse, due to forcing shifts, with Gatorade gu
>> gumming up the cable under the bb. I have another set going on 30,000
>> miles, and another set over 10,000 miles with out problem. I have one set
>> half cocked open with a rubber shim for a shorter reach, and I'm sure a lot
>> of dust, rain have gone into the mech, and it stills works perfect. Now I'm
>> going to stay open-minded about this mirage shifter, and maybe I'll be a
>> convert.
>
> Campag shifters are much more 'clicky' than shimano, with fewer of the
> internal springs and such that shimano use. shimano seem 'vague' to me
> and the best they will ever work is the first day oyutta the box.
> Considering the price, a shift lever should fail after many, many
> shifts and then should be repairable, IMO. Kinda like a auto's
> transmission..they are about the same percentage of the price of a
> car, fail seldom and are repairable.
>
shimano uses a sawtooth ratchet, not a simple "v" ratchet like campy.
for precision, i'll take the sawtooth any day.
|
| |
Date: 06 May 2007 22:16:07
From: Barnard Frederick
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
In article <MLt%h.8695$j63.5871@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net >,
jazzyboss@hotmail.com says...
> I did buy some mirage ergo shifters on some recommendations from my
> readings here. I just left them in the box, till I was going to do
> something with them, so now I'm examining them. They kind of seem crude,
> almost barbaric compared to the slick, precise shifting of a Shimano, I was
> kind of surprised. It looks like some crude ratcheting motion, that takes
> some effort. Maybe they'll be better when I get the cables in them. I hope
> they live up to the raves I read in here. I know Shimano's break, but they
> don't break very often. I had 1 left Shimano break after 20,000 miles, and
> I think it was from my abuse, due to forcing shifts, with Gatorade gu
> gumming up the cable under the bb. I have another set going on 30,000
> miles, and another set over 10,000 miles with out problem. I have one set
> half cocked open with a rubber shim for a shorter reach, and I'm sure a lot
> of dust, rain have gone into the mech, and it stills works perfect. Now I'm
> going to stay open-minded about this mirage shifter, and maybe I'll be a
> convert.
I seem to remember my Centaur shifters being a little stiffer than the
Ultegra's I use now, but I think the Shimano is a little too soft. I
have to admit I like the upshifting of STI, but the hoods of the Campy
are about 10x more comfortable. As always, YMMV. You may also like the
fact that it is much less likely to inadvertently apply brake while
shifting Campy, or that your fat fingers can't confuse the shifting.
|
| | |
Date: 06 May 2007 21:32:13
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
Barnard Frederick wrote:
> In article <MLt%h.8695$j63.5871@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> jazzyboss@hotmail.com says...
>
>> I did buy some mirage ergo shifters on some recommendations from my
>> readings here. I just left them in the box, till I was going to do
>> something with them, so now I'm examining them. They kind of seem crude,
>> almost barbaric compared to the slick, precise shifting of a Shimano, I was
>> kind of surprised. It looks like some crude ratcheting motion, that takes
>> some effort. Maybe they'll be better when I get the cables in them. I hope
>> they live up to the raves I read in here. I know Shimano's break, but they
>> don't break very often. I had 1 left Shimano break after 20,000 miles, and
>> I think it was from my abuse, due to forcing shifts, with Gatorade gu
>> gumming up the cable under the bb. I have another set going on 30,000
>> miles, and another set over 10,000 miles with out problem. I have one set
>> half cocked open with a rubber shim for a shorter reach, and I'm sure a lot
>> of dust, rain have gone into the mech, and it stills works perfect. Now I'm
>> going to stay open-minded about this mirage shifter, and maybe I'll be a
>> convert.
>
> I seem to remember my Centaur shifters being a little stiffer than the
> Ultegra's I use now, but I think the Shimano is a little too soft. I
> have to admit I like the upshifting of STI, but the hoods of the Campy
> are about 10x more comfortable. As always, YMMV. You may also like the
> fact that it is much less likely to inadvertently apply brake while
> shifting Campy,
put another way, it's much harder to shift while braking with campy.
personally, i much prefer shimano for that reason.
> or that your fat fingers can't confuse the shifting.
|
| | | |
Date: 06 May 2007 21:33:07
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
jim beam wrote:
> Barnard Frederick wrote:
>> In article <MLt%h.8695$j63.5871@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>> jazzyboss@hotmail.com says...
>>
>>> I did buy some mirage ergo shifters on some recommendations from my
>>> readings here. I just left them in the box, till I was going to do
>>> something with them, so now I'm examining them. They kind of seem
>>> crude,
>>> almost barbaric compared to the slick, precise shifting of a Shimano,
>>> I was
>>> kind of surprised. It looks like some crude ratcheting motion, that
>>> takes
>>> some effort. Maybe they'll be better when I get the cables in them.
>>> I hope
>>> they live up to the raves I read in here. I know Shimano's break,
>>> but they
>>> don't break very often. I had 1 left Shimano break after 20,000
>>> miles, and
>>> I think it was from my abuse, due to forcing shifts, with Gatorade gu
>>> gumming up the cable under the bb. I have another set going on 30,000
>>> miles, and another set over 10,000 miles with out problem. I have
>>> one set
>>> half cocked open with a rubber shim for a shorter reach, and I'm sure
>>> a lot
>>> of dust, rain have gone into the mech, and it stills works perfect.
>>> Now I'm
>>> going to stay open-minded about this mirage shifter, and maybe I'll be a
>>> convert.
>>
>> I seem to remember my Centaur shifters being a little stiffer than the
>> Ultegra's I use now, but I think the Shimano is a little too soft. I
>> have to admit I like the upshifting of STI, but the hoods of the Campy
>> are about 10x more comfortable. As always, YMMV. You may also like
>> the fact that it is much less likely to inadvertently apply brake
>> while shifting Campy,
>
> put another way, it's much harder to shift while braking with campy.
> personally, i much prefer shimano for that reason.
especially as i'm a motorcycle braking [right hand front] kinda guy.
>
>> or that your fat fingers can't confuse the shifting.
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 May 2007 05:18:51
From: Ben C
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
On 2007-05-07, jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote:
[...]
>> put another way, it's much harder to shift while braking with campy.
>> personally, i much prefer shimano for that reason.
>
> especially as i'm a motorcycle braking [right hand front] kinda guy.
It's a pity you can't have the front brake and the front derailleur both
on the right. But I think left and right ergos are different.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 07 May 2007 23:12:36
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
In article <slrnf3tv49.2n8.spamspam@bowser.marioworld >,
Ben C <spamspam@spam.eggs > wrote:
> On 2007-05-07, jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: [...]
> >> put another way, it's much harder to shift while braking with
> >> campy. personally, i much prefer shimano for that reason.
> >
> > especially as i'm a motorcycle braking [right hand front] kinda
> > guy.
>
> It's a pity you can't have the front brake and the front derailleur
> both on the right. But I think left and right ergos are different.
Why would you want the front derailleur controlled by the right hand
brifter? I understand the braking preference, but not the shifting.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 07 May 2007 18:50:37
From: Lou Holtman
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
Ben C wrote:
> On 2007-05-07, jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
> [...]
>>> put another way, it's much harder to shift while braking with campy.
>>> personally, i much prefer shimano for that reason.
>> especially as i'm a motorcycle braking [right hand front] kinda guy.
>
> It's a pity you can't have the front brake and the front derailleur both
> on the right.
Why is that a pity?
> But I think left and right ergos are different.
Yes they are.
Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 07 May 2007 12:26:12
From: Ben C
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
On 2007-05-07, Lou Holtman <lholremovethis@planet.nl > wrote:
> Ben C wrote:
>> On 2007-05-07, jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> [...]
>>>> put another way, it's much harder to shift while braking with campy.
>>>> personally, i much prefer shimano for that reason.
>>> especially as i'm a motorcycle braking [right hand front] kinda guy.
>>
>> It's a pity you can't have the front brake and the front derailleur both
>> on the right.
>
> Why is that a pity?
Well then jim could operate his front brake with his right hand while
shifting down rear sprockets with his left.
Actually I think simultaneous braking and shifting ought to be possible
with an ergo lever anyway with a bit of practice.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 07 May 2007 20:55:46
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
Ben C wrote:
<snip for clarity >
> Actually I think simultaneous braking and shifting ought to be possible
> with an ergo lever anyway with a bit of practice.
it should, but:
1. i'm a bit unco.
2. if the lever is getting close the handlebar, that plan exits stage left.
|
| |
Date: 06 May 2007 18:25:48
From: D'ohBoy
Subject: Re: mirage shifters are crude
|
Callistus Valerius wrote (in part):
> They kind of seem crude,
> almost barbaric compared to the slick, precise shifting of a Shimano, I was
> kind of surprised. It looks like some crude ratcheting motion, that takes
> some effort. Maybe they'll be better when I get the cables in them.
Ummm, yeah. Even Record is VERY stiff without the cables in them.
But all cabled up, and with the lever arm you have from your hand
position with the lever clamped to the bar, they are very easy to
shift.
Give them a chance (I see you already are...)
D'ohBoy
|
|
