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Main
Date: 02 Jun 2007 01:47:46
From:
Subject: replacing qr axle
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I'm thinking about installing a high quality front hub on my Raleigh,
since the cheap replacement cones on the Sturmey front low flange hub,
are only lasting 2k miles before pitting badly. Can i buy an XT or
Campy Record hub and retro fit a nutted axle?
cheers for reading my question,
thanks, Nick.
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Date: 05 Jun 2007 01:42:48
From:
Subject: Re: replacing qr axle
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.
>
> First, you are apparently doing something very wrong in terms of adjustment,
> maintenance, lubrication if you're only getting 2000 miles out of your wheel
> bearings.
I think you could be right. I adjust the cones back, until the point
where i get a bit of play, then tighten by a tiny fraction(1/16 of a
turn or so), which removes the play. Is it better to leave a small bit
of play at the rim. It could just be soft inferior cone surfaces, as i
get an axle and cones for ?5. I know my original cones lasted for
years, so these must be poor in comparison.
>
> There is no reason to not use a quick release. They are rugged, simple reliable
> and plenty rugged for any use.
> It's one of those cases where your head tells you that there's every reason to switch, but your sense of nostalgia keeps you doing what you've always been happy with. I'm thinking that for reliability's sake i'll be better taking the advice i've been given and retire the old Raleighs for the odd ride and buy a workhorse mileage bike that can be rebuilt as and when it needs to be. Dawes Galaxy looks a good bike. Cheers for the all the help. Ok JT, just kidding, i couldn't resist eliciting a known response, sorry.
all the best, Nick.
> Ron
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Date: 05 Jun 2007 17:09:13
From: Donald Gillies
Subject: Re: replacing qr axle
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voltimando@aol.com writes:
>.
>>
>> First, you are apparently doing something very wrong in terms of adjustment,
>> maintenance, lubrication if you're only getting 2000 miles out of your wheel
>> bearings.
>I think you could be right. I adjust the cones back, until the point
>where i get a bit of play, then tighten by a tiny fraction(1/16 of a
>turn or so), which removes the play. Is it better to leave a small bit
>of play at the rim.
If you leave a small bit of play on the cones, when the axle nut is
tightened the play will be removed. In fact, when I rebuild a QR hub
I get out some unbrazed fork ends and install the QR to standard
tightness (90 degrees bend in QR paddle when it starts to clamp) and
then check that that the cones are perfect.
Given a choice of a small overtightening, and a small
under-tightening, i've heard that over-tightening is preferable.
So if you're over-tightening, I suspect its your bearings or grease or
(much more remote chance) inferior cones ??
Low-quality cones will "break in" over the first 100 miles and wear a
grove. So, if you install the cones and then retest and readjust at
100 miles, you should be good to go thousands (5,000 - 10,000 imho)
miles or more ...
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA
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Date: 04 Jun 2007 09:54:15
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: replacing qr axle
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On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 01:47:46 -0700, voltimando@aol.com wrote:
>I'm thinking about installing a high quality front hub on my Raleigh,
>since the cheap replacement cones on the Sturmey front low flange hub,
>are only lasting 2k miles before pitting badly. Can i buy an XT or
>Campy Record hub and retro fit a nutted axle?
> cheers for reading my question,
> thanks, Nick.
First, you are apparently doing something very wrong in terms of adjustment,
maintenance, lubrication if you're only getting 2000 miles out of your wheel
bearings.
There is no reason to not use a quick release. They are rugged, simple reliable
and plenty rugged for any use.
Ron
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Date: 04 Jun 2007 06:49:30
From:
Subject: Re: replacing qr axle
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>
> Why on earth would someone buy new parts to support such unfounded
> concerns? Sounds like the overkill demons again.
>
> --
> JT
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visithttp://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************
Thank you JT, and i'm sure i speak for many others when i ask, why on
earth would someone spend their life being obsessively negative and
critical of other posters?(crash hats on)
i wanted some advice on whether i could replace the axle because
hopefully i'll then be able to get some readilly serviceable hubs/
cones. It would be much less hassle than having to hunt around for nos
raleigh cones as i'm doing at the moment. I think whatever the rights
or wrongs of QR, i like nutted axles and changing a qr for a solid one
will mean i can buy a good modern hub so that i can service it without
parts problems.
Thanks Jim, you're right it is a cone quality issue. It would be
fantastic if i could go out and pick up a few dozen decent cones that
would fit a 5/16 x 26tpi axle. Looks like the only ones i can get in
the UK are probably Indian repro parts for those cheap and cheerful
Indian DL-1s. I reckon if you knew your part dimensions, it would be
possible to just install a compatible axle and cones from a Campy or
similar quality manufact. in the Raleigh front hub, but without having
them to measure, it would be a needle in a haystack finding one that
fitted.
My point about Aluminium axles is from a laymans point of view, i.e.
in my experience, steel has better strength and fatique
characteristics than alley, though i'm sure certain alloys contradict
this. Just a dinosaur's instinct to stay with what you know.
Andrew, when you say they can't be changed, what size are regular qr
axle ends? My dropouts are just over 8mm Raleigh. If i went for the
trackhub option, would they fit?
Cheers, Nick.
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Date: 04 Jun 2007 22:05:00
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: replacing qr axle
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-snip front nutted axle hub-
> Thanks Jim, you're right it is a cone quality issue. It would be
> fantastic if i could go out and pick up a few dozen decent cones that
> would fit a 5/16 x 26tpi axle. Looks like the only ones i can get in
> the UK are probably Indian repro parts for those cheap and cheerful
> Indian DL-1s. I reckon if you knew your part dimensions, it would be
> possible to just install a compatible axle and cones from a Campy or
> similar quality manufact. in the Raleigh front hub, but without having
> them to measure, it would be a needle in a haystack finding one that
> fitted.
>
> My point about Aluminium axles is from a laymans point of view, i.e.
> in my experience, steel has better strength and fatique
> characteristics than alley, though i'm sure certain alloys contradict
> this. Just a dinosaur's instinct to stay with what you know.
>
> Andrew, when you say they can't be changed, what size are regular qr
> axle ends? My dropouts are just over 8mm Raleigh. If i went for the
> trackhub option, would they fit?
Raleigh's fork tips were for many years "keyhole" shaped with a matching
"spigotted" cone which was the original PRD --the wheel can't fall out
when the axle nuts are loose.
Standard fronts are 8mm but track axles are 9mm (same as QR fronts) so
you will have to cut away the fork tips to accept the larger axle of a
better quality hub. Take care to not touch the very topmost surface with
your cutter or file as the wheel won't center in the fork if you change
that dimension.
p.s. Campagnolo's large diameter aluminum axles in the post-2000 hubs
have proved exceptionally reliable. I think most mechanics would agree
these are absolutely the best free-ball design ever for ease of
rebuild/maintenance and bearing adjustment. Truly an wonderful design.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 04 Jun 2007 19:36:18
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: replacing qr axle
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voltimando@aol.com wrote:
>> Why on earth would someone buy new parts to support such unfounded
>> concerns? Sounds like the overkill demons again.
>>
>> --
>> JT
>> ****************************
>> Remove "remove" to reply
>> Visithttp://www.jt10000.com
>> ****************************
>
> Thank you JT, and i'm sure i speak for many others when i ask, why on
> earth would someone spend their life being obsessively negative and
> critical of other posters?(crash hats on)
>
> i wanted some advice on whether i could replace the axle because
> hopefully i'll then be able to get some readilly serviceable hubs/
> cones. It would be much less hassle than having to hunt around for nos
> raleigh cones as i'm doing at the moment. I think whatever the rights
> or wrongs of QR, i like nutted axles and changing a qr for a solid one
> will mean i can buy a good modern hub so that i can service it without
> parts problems.
>
> Thanks Jim, you're right it is a cone quality issue. It would be
> fantastic if i could go out and pick up a few dozen decent cones that
> would fit a 5/16 x 26tpi axle. Looks like the only ones i can get in
> the UK are probably Indian repro parts for those cheap and cheerful
> Indian DL-1s. I reckon if you knew your part dimensions, it would be
> possible to just install a compatible axle and cones from a Campy or
> similar quality manufact. in the Raleigh front hub, but without having
> them to measure, it would be a needle in a haystack finding one that
> fitted.
>
> My point about Aluminium axles is from a laymans point of view, i.e.
> in my experience, steel has better strength and fatique
> characteristics than alley, though i'm sure certain alloys contradict
> this. Just a dinosaur's instinct to stay with what you know.
it's not instinct, it's urban legend that gets assimilated into the
language of the equipment. sheldon made a comment a while back, either
on this forum or on his web site, about the english preoccupation with
steel being rooted in the industrial revolution. i think he's probably
right.
>
> Andrew, when you say they can't be changed, what size are regular qr
> axle ends? My dropouts are just over 8mm Raleigh. If i went for the
> trackhub option, would they fit?
>
> Cheers, Nick.
>
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Date: 04 Jun 2007 18:30:42
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: replacing qr axle
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On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 06:49:30 -0700, voltimando@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Why on earth would someone buy new parts to support such unfounded
>> concerns? Sounds like the overkill demons again.
>
>Thank you JT, and i'm sure i speak for many others when i ask, why on
>earth would someone spend their life being obsessively negative and
>critical of other posters?
I'm not sure about "spending my life" but insofar as you started with
the dissing by writing "Aluminium axles, why on earth would they make
them out of such an inferior material? Sounds like the fashion demons
again" you're being rather hypocritical.
If you want to be negative, fine, but don't complain about getting
flak back.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 03 Jun 2007 00:51:33
From: Avagadro IV
Subject: Re: replacing qr axle
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shimano cones ome and replacement cones are hard enough and compatible
with grade 25 bearings.
Wheels Mfg cones run differently here than Shimano cones. Wheels cones
quickly break into a race, the Shimano cones wear harder. In theory,
that could mean the Wheels cones are faster out of the box.
The solid axle is called a 'track axle,' so i hear, at 9mm and carries
Shimano and Wheels cones. Wheels has 'track axles' ?
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Date: 02 Jun 2007 13:50:43
From:
Subject: Re: replacing qr axle
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> p.s. I'm assuming you mean classic equipment. Modern aluminum axle
> versions, no.
>
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
yeap, definitely. Aluminium axles, why on earth would they make them
out of such an inferior material? Sounds like the fashion demons
again.
Are modern solid axles, say on the Campy or Phil Wood, the standard
9mm?
cheers, Nick.
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Date: 02 Jun 2007 15:18:08
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: replacing qr axle
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voltimando@aol.com wrote:
>> p.s. I'm assuming you mean classic equipment. Modern aluminum axle
>> versions, no.
>>
>> --
>> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
> yeap, definitely. Aluminium axles, why on earth would they make them
> out of such an inferior material?
what exactly do you mean by "inferior material"??? what properties do
you want an axle to have? aluminum may make an inferior magnet for
instance, but its mechanical properties can exceed those of steel if you
look at a property like specific modulus.
> Sounds like the fashion demons
> again.
>
> Are modern solid axles, say on the Campy or Phil Wood, the standard
> 9mm?
the only one of those that's solid axle is a campy track. every other
hub axle they use is hollow.
your problem is nothing to do with the axle - it's all about the quality
of the hub cones and their adjustment. if the quality is sufficient and
they're adjusted properly, they'll last ages.
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Date: 03 Jun 2007 20:20:13
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: replacing qr axle
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I (am@yellowjersey.org) wrote:
>>> p.s. I'm assuming you mean classic equipment. Modern aluminum axle
>>> versions, no.
> voltimando@aol.com wrote:
>> yeap, definitely. Aluminium axles, why on earth would they make them
>> out of such an inferior material?
jim beam wrote:
> what exactly do you mean by "inferior material"??? what properties do
> you want an axle to have? aluminum may make an inferior magnet for
> instance, but its mechanical properties can exceed those of steel if you
> look at a property like specific modulus.
> voltimando@aol.com wrote:
>> Sounds like the fashion demons
>> again.
>> Are modern solid axles, say on the Campy or Phil Wood, the standard
>> 9mm?
jim beam wrote:
> the only one of those that's solid axle is a campy track. every other
> hub axle they use is hollow.
> your problem is nothing to do with the axle - it's all about the quality
> of the hub cones and their adjustment. if the quality is sufficient and
> they're adjusted properly, they'll last ages.
I'm with jimbeam here. The post-2000 Campagnolo road hubs are an
exceptional design, free running, easy to adjust and/or service, light
and broken axles are unknown in that design, "inferior" aluminum axles
notwithstanding.
Despite its excellent service record for the intended (road) purpose
there's no way to change to 10mm/9mm solid axles. Get track or vintage hubs.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 02 Jun 2007 13:46:41
From:
Subject: Re: replacing qr axle
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On Jun 2, 12:51?pm, richard <rmccl...@insight.bb.com > wrote:
> What kind of conditions? If you're in constant wet filthy roads and
> don't clean the cones very frequently, any cones are going to wear
> quickly...
> dry conditions, new grease and bearings every 1000 miles, cones well adjusted top speed no more than 35mph normally and i avoid potholes.
> Why a nutted axle? Are you afraid of theft? There are some QR skewers
> available that do tricks, such as having a hex fitting on the cam (and
> the QR handle is an "allen" wrench).
I prefer the safety of nuts and solid steel, if i'm on a busy road i
want to know that the axles are going to hold up. I've read the points
about qr strength, but to be honest my axles have always been 5/16",
so qr wasn't an option.
>
> If you're determined to go Campy, either go Centaur (wonderful to
> service) or Veloce (sealed bearings).
> i'll have a look at my LBS. Do the Centaur cups last a good time?
> For durability, and since you mentioned Record as a choice, check out
> Phil Wood hubs.
>
> Oh yeah, and there'd be nothing wrong with an XT hub, either. It's just
> that the Centaur (and higher) hubs are so sweet to work on.
> Sounds a good reason to buy, i agree, if you can't strip it and tinker, what's the point, ha.
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Date: 02 Jun 2007 16:58:08
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: replacing qr axle
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On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 13:46:41 -0700, voltimando@aol.com wrote:
>I prefer the safety of nuts and solid steel, if i'm on a busy road i
>want to know that the axles are going to hold up. I've read the points
>about qr strength, but to be honest my axles have always been 5/16",
>so qr wasn't an option.
Why on earth would someone buy new parts to support such unfounded
concerns? Sounds like the overkill demons again.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 02 Jun 2007 09:53:46
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: replacing qr axle
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voltimando@aol.com wrote:
> I'm thinking about installing a high quality front hub on my Raleigh,
> since the cheap replacement cones on the Sturmey front low flange hub,
> are only lasting 2k miles before pitting badly. Can i buy an XT or
> Campy Record hub and retro fit a nutted axle?
p.s. I'm assuming you mean classic equipment. Modern aluminum axle
versions, no.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 02 Jun 2007 09:51:58
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: replacing qr axle
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voltimando@aol.com wrote:
> I'm thinking about installing a high quality front hub on my Raleigh,
> since the cheap replacement cones on the Sturmey front low flange hub,
> are only lasting 2k miles before pitting badly. Can i buy an XT or
> Campy Record hub and retro fit a nutted axle?
Yes.
If you ask nicely you may talk the vendor into swapping when you buy it;
a trivial exercise. Point out that the skewer costs about the same as
track nuts when you do.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 02 Jun 2007 06:51:37
From: richard
Subject: Re: replacing qr axle
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What kind of conditions? If you're in constant wet filthy roads and
don't clean the cones very frequently, any cones are going to wear
quickly...
Why a nutted axle? Are you afraid of theft? There are some QR skewers
available that do tricks, such as having a hex fitting on the cam (and
the QR handle is an "allen" wrench).
If you're determined to go Campy, either go Centaur (wonderful to
service) or Veloce (sealed bearings).
For durability, and since you mentioned Record as a choice, check out
Phil Wood hubs.
Oh yeah, and there'd be nothing wrong with an XT hub, either. It's just
that the Centaur (and higher) hubs are so sweet to work on.
voltimando@aol.com wrote:
> I'm thinking about installing a high quality front hub on my Raleigh,
> since the cheap replacement cones on the Sturmey front low flange hub,
> are only lasting 2k miles before pitting badly. Can i buy an XT or
> Campy Record hub and retro fit a nutted axle?
> cheers for reading my question,
> thanks, Nick.
>
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