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Date: 03 Jun 2007 00:27:51
From: Callistus Valerius
Subject: specialized hardrock XC
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Anyone have experience with a specialized hardrock xc? I have spent
fortunes on road bikes, but I'd like to do some occasional riding on forest
roads, that are really in the boonies. I don't want to spend a lot on a
mtb, this one is around $400, so I'm wondering if it's tough enough. These
forest roads sometimes really get torn up by rains, so I need a front fork,
but I don't plan on doing any jumps, so I don't need the weight of rear
suspension. It has a twist shifter, do those work? Can you put those bar
end things (what do you call um), that you can hold on to with a twist
shifter? I'm totally ignorant on mtb's, but I have a specialized roubaix
that I like quite a bit, so that's why I'm looking at the Specialized
lineup. I usually do around 500 miles a year on mtb's (the one I have now
weighs a ton), so I'm not a heavy user, so I don't want to spend that much.
Color of course is my top consideration, and they only have black and
silver. Damn it.....I've always wanted to own a red bike, but I guess I'll
go through life never owning one.
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Date: 03 Jun 2007 17:39:26
From:
Subject: Re: specialized hardrock XC
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On Jun 2, 7:27 pm, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Anyone have experience with a specialized hardrock xc? I have spent
> fortunes on road bikes, but I'd like to do some occasional riding on forest
> roads, that are really in the boonies. I don't want to spend a lot on a
> mtb, this one is around $400, so I'm wondering if it's tough enough. These
> forest roads sometimes really get torn up by rains, so I need a front fork,
> but I don't plan on doing any jumps, so I don't need the weight of rear
> suspension. It has a twist shifter, do those work? Can you put those bar
> end things (what do you call um), that you can hold on to with a twist
> shifter? I'm totally ignorant on mtb's, but I have a specialized roubaix
> that I like quite a bit, so that's why I'm looking at the Specialized
> lineup. I usually do around 500 miles a year on mtb's (the one I have now
> weighs a ton), so I'm not a heavy user, so I don't want to spend that much.
> Color of course is my top consideration, and they only have black and
> silver. Damn it.....I've always wanted to own a red bike, but I guess I'll
> go through life never owning one.
If you want a good bike and you're on a limited budget look at
Craigslist and ebay, maybe take the bike you have and start upgrading
it. It is possible to build a very competent, reasonably light - 25
lbs or less- mtb for that same $400 or maybe a little more. You just
have to have a little patience, willingness to do some research and
turn a wrench, and value function over shiny red paint, although you
might even be able to get that eventually.
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Date: 04 Jun 2007 23:26:26
From: Bellsouth Ijit 2.0 - Hayfever Edition ®
Subject: Re: specialized hardrock XC
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<SocSecTrainWreck@earthlink.net > wrote in message
news:1180917566.634851.181460@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 2, 7:27 pm, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Anyone have experience with a specialized hardrock xc? I have spent
>> fortunes on road bikes, but I'd like to do some occasional riding on
>> forest
>> roads, that are really in the boonies. I don't want to spend a lot on a
>> mtb, this one is around $400, so I'm wondering if it's tough enough.
>> These
>> forest roads sometimes really get torn up by rains, so I need a front
>> fork,
>> but I don't plan on doing any jumps, so I don't need the weight of rear
>> suspension. It has a twist shifter, do those work? Can you put those
>> bar
>> end things (what do you call um), that you can hold on to with a twist
>> shifter? I'm totally ignorant on mtb's, but I have a specialized roubaix
>> that I like quite a bit, so that's why I'm looking at the Specialized
>> lineup. I usually do around 500 miles a year on mtb's (the one I have
>> now
>> weighs a ton), so I'm not a heavy user, so I don't want to spend that
>> much.
>> Color of course is my top consideration, and they only have black and
>> silver. Damn it.....I've always wanted to own a red bike, but I guess
>> I'll
>> go through life never owning one.
>
> If you want a good bike and you're on a limited budget look at
> Craigslist and ebay, maybe take the bike you have and start upgrading
> it. It is possible to build a very competent, reasonably light - 25
> lbs or less- mtb for that same $400 or maybe a little more. You just
> have to have a little patience, willingness to do some research and
> turn a wrench, and value function over shiny red paint, although you
> might even be able to get that eventually.
>
I'd second that. Pick up a used rigid Rockhopper from mid-90s (preferably
steel) for $100, and a used Manitou SX (or SX-R) fork in good shape (they
came in red) for $50, and then OP will be set.
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Date: 03 Jun 2007 16:04:52
From: Chris Nelson
Subject: Re: specialized hardrock XC
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On Jun 3, 1:09 pm, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> > It is a beginner bike, only worth buying if you didn't have one. Ride
> > the one you have because its probably just as good.
>
> > Chris
>
> ----------
> how 'bout the next step up, the Rockhopper Disc, for $660. See that's how
> it progresses, and before you know it, you are forking out huge money. To
> be serious, it does have a better front fork (I think), and it's an 8 speed,
> vs 7 speed for the hardrock xc, and they have a red one, that's worth a
> couple hundred more just for that. So is this one a beginner bike too? And
> if not, what would be specialized's first mtb model that isn't a beginner
> bike? But as I said originally, I plan on just using it on forest roads.
Rockhopper Pro Disc would be the least expensive bike that is not a
beginner bike. Anything less and you will be getting a regretable
fork.
This is much more than you want to spend which is why you should just
ride the bike you already have. Otherwise you will be spending money
to go sideways.
Chris
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Date: 03 Jun 2007 17:48:45
From: Steve Gravrock
Subject: Re: specialized hardrock XC
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On 2007-06-03, Callistus Valerius <jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Anyone have experience with a specialized hardrock xc? I have spent
> fortunes on road bikes, but I'd like to do some occasional riding on forest
> roads, that are really in the boonies. I don't want to spend a lot on a
> mtb, this one is around $400, so I'm wondering if it's tough enough.
Looking at the Hardrock XC, my biggest concern is the single-wall rims
and the freeewheel hub. If the roads you're going to ride are really
rough enough to require a suspension fork, I'd be worried about the
wheels. Other than that, the components are cheap but should work fine.
I wouldn't worry about the frame -- it's probably identical to the
higher Hardrock models.
Really, a bike like that is designed primarily for riding on pavement.
The wheels give it away. It can be perfectly useable off-road, but it
will limit you unless you upgrade the wheels and maybe the fork. I'd
drop the extra $60 to get the Hardrock Sport, which comes with 36 spoke
double-wall rims front and rear and a cassette hub. It'll be money well
spent in the long run.
> These
> forest roads sometimes really get torn up by rains, so I need a front fork,
> but I don't plan on doing any jumps, so I don't need the weight of rear
> suspension. It has a twist shifter, do those work? Can you put those bar
> end things (what do you call um), that you can hold on to with a twist
> shifter?
They're called bar ends, and yes they work with twist shifters.
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Date: 03 Jun 2007 21:05:07
From: Callistus Valerius
Subject: Re: specialized hardrock XC
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>
> Looking at the Hardrock XC, my biggest concern is the single-wall rims
> and the freeewheel hub. If the roads you're going to ride are really
> rough enough to require a suspension fork, I'd be worried about the
> wheels. Other than that, the components are cheap but should work fine.
> I wouldn't worry about the frame -- it's probably identical to the
> higher Hardrock models.
>
> Really, a bike like that is designed primarily for riding on pavement.
> The wheels give it away. It can be perfectly useable off-road, but it
> will limit you unless you upgrade the wheels and maybe the fork. I'd
> drop the extra $60 to get the Hardrock Sport, which comes with 36 spoke
> double-wall rims front and rear and a cassette hub. It'll be money well
> spent in the long run.
> ---------
You're right about the wheels, I read some reviews where they did bend the
wheels when they went off the pavement. I'll look into the Sport model.
Some of these roads, change a lot after a rain, they can get really torn up,
lots of ascending and descending also, so I need a good front shock. You
really don't know what the condition of the road is, until you're 15 miles
into it sometimes. A big clue, is if you never see any vehicles on them.
One time I rode to an isolated border town, and the people there couldn't
believe I came through on the mountain road, because they said the road had
been impassable for a month, and they were waiting for a grader to fix it.
Or maybe it was because I was on a bike, who knows. But I'm a road guy, so
what may seem really bad to me, may be nothing to someone who mountain bikes
in really tough environments.
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Date: 03 Jun 2007 22:46:24
From: Steve Gravrock
Subject: Re: specialized hardrock XC
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On 2007-06-03, Callistus Valerius <jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote:
> You're right about the wheels, I read some reviews where they did bend the
> wheels when they went off the pavement. I'll look into the Sport model.
> Some of these roads, change a lot after a rain, they can get really torn up,
> lots of ascending and descending also, so I need a good front shock. You
> really don't know what the condition of the road is, until you're 15 miles
> into it sometimes. A big clue, is if you never see any vehicles on them.
> One time I rode to an isolated border town, and the people there couldn't
> believe I came through on the mountain road, because they said the road had
> been impassable for a month, and they were waiting for a grader to fix it.
> Or maybe it was because I was on a bike, who knows. But I'm a road guy, so
> what may seem really bad to me, may be nothing to someone who mountain bikes
> in really tough environments.
The other problem is that there are so many different suspension forks
out there, and most people have ridden so few of them, that it's hard to
find somebody who can compare model X with model Y based on experience.
As a recent convert to front suspension I've been happy with the Rock
Shox Tora, which doesn't show up on Specialized's lineup until the
Rockhopper Comp at $880 MSRP. I can't speak from experience about
anything else.
<http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/ > is one place worth looking. Be careful
about directly comparing the average ratings of products at different
price points as people tend to expect more of more expensive gear. Even
before you factor that in, RST forks tend to review rather badly.
Probably the best thing would be to see if the shop will let you test-
ride the model you're interested in on the roads that you have in mind.
You could also ask the local mountain bike club, if there is one, and
hopefully get advice from people who know the terrain you'll be riding.
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Date: 03 Jun 2007 05:17:34
From: Chris Nelson
Subject: Re: specialized hardrock XC
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On Jun 2, 8:27 pm, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Anyone have experience with a specialized hardrock xc? I have spent
> fortunes on road bikes, but I'd like to do some occasional riding on forest
> roads, that are really in the boonies. I don't want to spend a lot on a
> mtb, this one is around $400, so I'm wondering if it's tough enough. These
> forest roads sometimes really get torn up by rains, so I need a front fork,
> but I don't plan on doing any jumps, so I don't need the weight of rear
> suspension. It has a twist shifter, do those work? Can you put those bar
> end things (what do you call um), that you can hold on to with a twist
> shifter? I'm totally ignorant on mtb's, but I have a specialized roubaix
> that I like quite a bit, so that's why I'm looking at the Specialized
> lineup. I usually do around 500 miles a year on mtb's (the one I have now
> weighs a ton), so I'm not a heavy user, so I don't want to spend that much.
> Color of course is my top consideration, and they only have black and
> silver. Damn it.....I've always wanted to own a red bike, but I guess I'll
> go through life never owning one.
It is a beginner bike, only worth buying if you didn't have one. Ride
the one you have because its probably just as good.
Chris
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Date: 03 Jun 2007 17:09:14
From: Callistus Valerius
Subject: Re: specialized hardrock XC
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> It is a beginner bike, only worth buying if you didn't have one. Ride
> the one you have because its probably just as good.
>
> Chris
----------
how 'bout the next step up, the Rockhopper Disc, for $660. See that's how
it progresses, and before you know it, you are forking out huge money. To
be serious, it does have a better front fork (I think), and it's an 8 speed,
vs 7 speed for the hardrock xc, and they have a red one, that's worth a
couple hundred more just for that. So is this one a beginner bike too? And
if not, what would be specialized's first mtb model that isn't a beginner
bike? But as I said originally, I plan on just using it on forest roads.
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Date: 04 Jun 2007 23:23:18
From: Bellsouth Ijit 2.0 - Hayfever Edition ®
Subject: Re: specialized hardrock XC
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"Callistus Valerius" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:_AC8i.13055$296.10094@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> It is a beginner bike, only worth buying if you didn't have one. Ride
>> the one you have because its probably just as good.
>>
>> Chris
> ----------
> how 'bout the next step up, the Rockhopper Disc, for $660. See that's how
> it progresses, and before you know it, you are forking out huge money. To
> be serious, it does have a better front fork (I think), and it's an 8
> speed,
> vs 7 speed for the hardrock xc, and they have a red one, that's worth a
> couple hundred more just for that. So is this one a beginner bike too?
> And
> if not, what would be specialized's first mtb model that isn't a beginner
> bike? But as I said originally, I plan on just using it on forest roads.
>
>
I have two Rockhoppers, albeit older steel versions from late 80s and mid
90s, and both came as rigids. Great do-everything bikes. The "newer" one I
at point had a 73mm fork (Judy XC) on it and bombed it all over
singletracks, although I've bombed around trails on rigid forks also.
Unless you plan on doing a lot of wet riding, I'd say v-brakes will be
suffiencent. Although, do manufacturers even sell mtbs with v-brakes any
more these days?
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Date: 05 Jun 2007 01:45:07
From: Steve Gravrock
Subject: Re: specialized hardrock XC
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On 2007-06-04, Bellsouth Ijit 2.0 - Hayfever Edition ® <bjit@bellsouth.net >
wrote:
>
[...]
> Unless you plan on doing a lot of wet riding, I'd say v-brakes will be
> suffiencent. Although, do manufacturers even sell mtbs with v-brakes any
> more these days?
Yes. You'll still see v-brakes on cheaper bikes and on high-end XC race
bikes, the former because they're cheaper and the latter because they're
lighter.
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Date: 03 Jun 2007 18:08:39
From: Steve Gravrock
Subject: Re: specialized hardrock XC
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On 2007-06-03, Callistus Valerius <jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote:
> how 'bout the next step up, the Rockhopper Disc, for $660. See that's how
> it progresses, and before you know it, you are forking out huge money. To
> be serious, it does have a better front fork (I think), and it's an 8 speed,
> vs 7 speed for the hardrock xc, and they have a red one, that's worth a
> couple hundred more just for that. So is this one a beginner bike too? And
> if not, what would be specialized's first mtb model that isn't a beginner
> bike? But as I said originally, I plan on just using it on forest roads.
For an extra $330 over the Hardrock Sport (see my other post in this
thread) you're getting a presumably better fork, disc brakes, and red
paint. The rest of the component package is almost identical. For the
riding conditions that you describe, I don't see how you'd be getting
enough benefit to justify the jump in price.
Disc brakes are only a big help on steep or very long descents. The
Shimano mechanicals get mixed reviews, so you may be better off with V
brakes unless you ride a lot of long descents. If you do need discs, you
can upgrade for less than the price difference between the two bikes.
If you were talking about doing a lot of trail riding I'd probably push
you toward something nicer like the Rockhopper Comp, but for riding
fire roads there's no need to spend a lot of money.
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Date: 03 Jun 2007 04:55:37
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: specialized hardrock XC
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In article <bWn8i.12896$296.12295@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net >,
"Callistus Valerius" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Anyone have experience with a specialized hardrock xc? I have spent
> fortunes on road bikes, but I'd like to do some occasional riding on forest
> roads, that are really in the boonies. I don't want to spend a lot on a
> mtb, this one is around $400, so I'm wondering if it's tough enough. These
> forest roads sometimes really get torn up by rains, so I need a front fork,
> but I don't plan on doing any jumps, so I don't need the weight of rear
> suspension. It has a twist shifter, do those work? Can you put those bar
> end things (what do you call um), that you can hold on to with a twist
> shifter? I'm totally ignorant on mtb's, but I have a specialized roubaix
> that I like quite a bit, so that's why I'm looking at the Specialized
> lineup. I usually do around 500 miles a year on mtb's (the one I have now
> weighs a ton), so I'm not a heavy user, so I don't want to spend that much.
> Color of course is my top consideration, and they only have black and
> silver. Damn it.....I've always wanted to own a red bike, but I guess I'll
> go through life never owning one.
It's fine for your needs. What's the fork? Presumably something with an
elastomer inside. Twist shifters are fine, but are a matter of taste.
Some love 'em, I prefer triggers.
Yes, bar ends (that's what they're called) will work with twist
shifters. The gripshift mechanism only occupies the inner part of the
grip; the outer bit of grip is just a grip.
I think Kona has some nice red bikes in your price range, but I'm only
recommending them because their head office is fairly close to Vancouver.
Get the bike; even if the fork is utter crap, the rest of the bike is
worth keeping, and the inevitable upgrade to the hottest coil-and-oil or
air-damped model of three years ago will cost very little.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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