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Main
Date: 09 Jul 2007 23:57:15
From: mariusz
Subject: vintage saddle
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hi there,
why is the saddle connected to the frame ?
http://www.velostuf.com/cinelliuvi4.jpg
regards
Mariusz
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Date: 10 Jul 2007 21:51:43
From: John Thompson
Subject: Re: vintage saddle
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On 2007-07-10, mariusz <mnienalt@gmail.com > wrote:
> why is the saddle connected to the frame ?
>
>
> http://www.velostuf.com/cinelliuvi4.jpg
Before the venerable Campagnolo 2-bolt seatpost appeared, seats often
had a tendency to tilt with hard use. The piece depicted helps prevent
this from happening, and was often seen on track bikes in particular.
--
John (john@os2.dhs.org)
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 14:00:25
From: Donald Gillies
Subject: Re: vintage saddle
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John Thompson <john@vector.os2.dhs.org > writes:
>On 2007-07-10, mariusz <mnienalt@gmail.com> wrote:
>> why is the saddle connected to the frame ?
>>
>>
>> http://www.velostuf.com/cinelliuvi4.jpg
>Before the venerable Campagnolo 2-bolt seatpost appeared, seats often
>had a tendency to tilt with hard use. The piece depicted helps prevent
>this from happening, and was often seen on track bikes in particular.
John wins the prize for the first person to give the correct answer.
With large-notched laprade (Sakae) or 2-bolt microadjust seatposts,
there is no need for this ...
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA
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Date: 10 Jul 2007 12:45:47
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: vintage saddle
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mariusz wrote:
> why is the saddle connected to the frame ?
> http://www.velostuf.com/cinelliuvi4.jpg
That little device is used to micro-adjust saddle angle with an
otherwise coarse seat clip. Campagnolo's wonderful two-bolt post
(c.1960?) obviated that sort of thing. Simplex and others solved the
problem neatly too.
LaPrade's design, while elegant and much copied, has the same 'notched'
foible. Campagnolo's late-80s inverse curve designs as well as Tom
Ritchey's clever version are clearly superior in that regard. Notches
apparently save the manufacturer something in either tolerance or
materials because they are again nearly ubiquitous. Current notchless
niche products such as Thomson are available if you care.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 10 Jul 2007 07:51:31
From: Mark Shroyer
Subject: Re: vintage saddle
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On 2007-07-10, mariusz <mnienalt@gmail.com > wrote:
> hi there,
> why is the saddle connected to the frame ?
>
> http://www.velostuf.com/cinelliuvi4.jpg
To adjust / maintain the saddle's tilt? Although that seems an odd
and slightly precarious way to do it... but it looks as though the
connecting rod is adjustable for just that purpose.
The photo doesn't show the underside of the saddle, but it looks
like the seatpost might rotate freely in its degree of inclination.
If the seatpost can rotate but there is no bolt to tighten the joint
down, then it would seem to explain this device.
--
Mark Shroyer
http://markshroyer.com/
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Date: 10 Jul 2007 07:35:42
From: Carl Sundquist
Subject: Re: vintage saddle
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"Mark Shroyer" <usenet-mail@markshroyer.com > wrote in message
news:slrnf96ek5.9d2.usenet-mail@sed.homestarmy.dynalias.net...
> On 2007-07-10, mariusz <mnienalt@gmail.com> wrote:
>> hi there,
>> why is the saddle connected to the frame ?
>>
>> http://www.velostuf.com/cinelliuvi4.jpg
>
> To adjust / maintain the saddle's tilt? Although that seems an odd
> and slightly precarious way to do it... but it looks as though the
> connecting rod is adjustable for just that purpose.
>
> The photo doesn't show the underside of the saddle, but it looks
> like the seatpost might rotate freely in its degree of inclination.
> If the seatpost can rotate but there is no bolt to tighten the joint
> down, then it would seem to explain this device.
Because it is part of a traditional stayer's (motorpace) bike. The rider's
position on the bike was relatively very forward in order to try to get
closer to the draft from the leading motorcycle. The bikes also had a
smaller front wheel and the forks were backward, again to allow the rider to
get more into the draft. The stem was usually longer than normal and also
had a brace supporting it, running from the end of the stem down to the
fork, attaching at the crown where a brake center bolt would go on a road
bike.
The supports were added due to the speeds achieved on smaller (200 meters
and shorter) velodromes where the combination of the riders sitting on the
tip of the saddle for prolonged periods and the g-forces in the bends could
cause the tip of the saddle to slip downward. I doubt they ever had any
issues with the stems, probably felt that it was just a smart idea to be on
the safe side and brace it, too.
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 00:18:58
From:
Subject: Re: vintage saddle
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:35:42 -0500, "Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox.net >
wrote:
>
>"Mark Shroyer" <usenet-mail@markshroyer.com> wrote in message
>news:slrnf96ek5.9d2.usenet-mail@sed.homestarmy.dynalias.net...
>> On 2007-07-10, mariusz <mnienalt@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> hi there,
>>> why is the saddle connected to the frame ?
>>>
>>> http://www.velostuf.com/cinelliuvi4.jpg
>>
>> To adjust / maintain the saddle's tilt? Although that seems an odd
>> and slightly precarious way to do it... but it looks as though the
>> connecting rod is adjustable for just that purpose.
>>
>> The photo doesn't show the underside of the saddle, but it looks
>> like the seatpost might rotate freely in its degree of inclination.
>> If the seatpost can rotate but there is no bolt to tighten the joint
>> down, then it would seem to explain this device.
>
>Because it is part of a traditional stayer's (motorpace) bike. The rider's
>position on the bike was relatively very forward in order to try to get
>closer to the draft from the leading motorcycle. The bikes also had a
>smaller front wheel and the forks were backward, again to allow the rider to
>get more into the draft. The stem was usually longer than normal and also
>had a brace supporting it, running from the end of the stem down to the
>fork, attaching at the crown where a brake center bolt would go on a road
>bike.
>
>The supports were added due to the speeds achieved on smaller (200 meters
>and shorter) velodromes where the combination of the riders sitting on the
>tip of the saddle for prolonged periods and the g-forces in the bends could
>cause the tip of the saddle to slip downward. I doubt they ever had any
>issues with the stems, probably felt that it was just a smart idea to be on
>the safe side and brace it, too.
Dear Carl,
Aha! The odd seat brace is just visible:
http://www.printsoldandrare.com/bicycles/145bike.jpg
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
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Date: 10 Jul 2007 11:09:27
From:
Subject: Re: vintage saddle
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:35:42 -0500, "Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox.net >
wrote:
>
>"Mark Shroyer" <usenet-mail@markshroyer.com> wrote in message
>news:slrnf96ek5.9d2.usenet-mail@sed.homestarmy.dynalias.net...
>> On 2007-07-10, mariusz <mnienalt@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> hi there,
>>> why is the saddle connected to the frame ?
>>>
>>> http://www.velostuf.com/cinelliuvi4.jpg
>>
>> To adjust / maintain the saddle's tilt? Although that seems an odd
>> and slightly precarious way to do it... but it looks as though the
>> connecting rod is adjustable for just that purpose.
>>
>> The photo doesn't show the underside of the saddle, but it looks
>> like the seatpost might rotate freely in its degree of inclination.
>> If the seatpost can rotate but there is no bolt to tighten the joint
>> down, then it would seem to explain this device.
>
>Because it is part of a traditional stayer's (motorpace) bike. The rider's
>position on the bike was relatively very forward in order to try to get
>closer to the draft from the leading motorcycle. The bikes also had a
>smaller front wheel and the forks were backward, again to allow the rider to
>get more into the draft. The stem was usually longer than normal and also
>had a brace supporting it, running from the end of the stem down to the
>fork, attaching at the crown where a brake center bolt would go on a road
>bike.
>
>The supports were added due to the speeds achieved on smaller (200 meters
>and shorter) velodromes where the combination of the riders sitting on the
>tip of the saddle for prolonged periods and the g-forces in the bends could
>cause the tip of the saddle to slip downward. I doubt they ever had any
>issues with the stems, probably felt that it was just a smart idea to be on
>the safe side and brace it, too.
Dear Carl,
Here's the whole bike:
http://www.velostuf.com/cinelliuvi1.jpg
Its photo gallery is at the top of this page:
http://www.velostuf.com/velostufgallerybikes+frames.htm
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
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Date: 10 Jul 2007 13:06:02
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: vintage saddle
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>>> mariusz <mnienalt@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> why is the saddle connected to the frame ?
>>>> http://www.velostuf.com/cinelliuvi4.jpg
>> "Mark Shroyer" <usenet-mail@markshroyer.com> wrote in message
>> news:slrnf96ek5.9d2.usenet-mail@sed.homestarmy.dynalias.net...
>>> To adjust / maintain the saddle's tilt? Although that seems an odd
>>> and slightly precarious way to do it... but it looks as though the
>>> connecting rod is adjustable for just that purpose.
>>> The photo doesn't show the underside of the saddle, but it looks
>>> like the seatpost might rotate freely in its degree of inclination.
>>> If the seatpost can rotate but there is no bolt to tighten the joint
>>> down, then it would seem to explain this device.
> "Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox.net> wrote:
>> Because it is part of a traditional stayer's (motorpace) bike. The rider's
>> position on the bike was relatively very forward in order to try to get
>> closer to the draft from the leading motorcycle. The bikes also had a
>> smaller front wheel and the forks were backward, again to allow the rider to
>> get more into the draft. The stem was usually longer than normal and also
>> had a brace supporting it, running from the end of the stem down to the
>> fork, attaching at the crown where a brake center bolt would go on a road
>> bike.
>>
>> The supports were added due to the speeds achieved on smaller (200 meters
>> and shorter) velodromes where the combination of the riders sitting on the
>> tip of the saddle for prolonged periods and the g-forces in the bends could
>> cause the tip of the saddle to slip downward. I doubt they ever had any
>> issues with the stems, probably felt that it was just a smart idea to be on
>> the safe side and brace it, too.
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> Here's the whole bike:
> http://www.velostuf.com/cinelliuvi1.jpg
> Its photo gallery is at the top of this page:
> http://www.velostuf.com/velostufgallerybikes+frames.htm
Oh, great.
How how am I going to get anything done today with that sexy thing on
screen? I think I'll just sit here and salivate a while. mmmmmm (sigh)
What Carl Sundquist writes is correct but this one is neither a stayer
bike nor is the saddle extremely forward.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 10 Jul 2007 09:58:24
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: vintage saddle
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"Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox.net > wrote in message
news:R2Lki.45585$aP2.29163@newsfe16.lga...
>
> "Mark Shroyer" <usenet-mail@markshroyer.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnf96ek5.9d2.usenet-mail@sed.homestarmy.dynalias.net...
> > On 2007-07-10, mariusz <mnienalt@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> hi there,
> >> why is the saddle connected to the frame ?
> >>
> >> http://www.velostuf.com/cinelliuvi4.jpg
> >
> > To adjust / maintain the saddle's tilt? Although that seems an odd
> > and slightly precarious way to do it... but it looks as though the
> > connecting rod is adjustable for just that purpose.
> >
> > The photo doesn't show the underside of the saddle, but it looks
> > like the seatpost might rotate freely in its degree of inclination.
> > If the seatpost can rotate but there is no bolt to tighten the joint
> > down, then it would seem to explain this device.
>
> Because it is part of a traditional stayer's (motorpace) bike. The
rider's
> position on the bike was relatively very forward in order to try to get
> closer to the draft from the leading motorcycle. The bikes also had a
> smaller front wheel and the forks were backward, again to allow the
rider to
> get more into the draft. The stem was usually longer than normal and
also
> had a brace supporting it, running from the end of the stem down to the
> fork, attaching at the crown where a brake center bolt would go on a
road
> bike.
>
> The supports were added due to the speeds achieved on smaller (200
meters
> and shorter) velodromes where the combination of the riders sitting on
the
> tip of the saddle for prolonged periods and the g-forces in the bends
could
> cause the tip of the saddle to slip downward. I doubt they ever had any
> issues with the stems, probably felt that it was just a smart idea to be
on
> the safe side and brace it, too.
>
I've also seen these attachments on a lot of older standard track bikes. I
always thought that it was used in conjunction with the old fashioned seat
clamps that had nuts on both sides of the clamp with serrated washers to
position the nose angle.
Sprinters with ham sized thighs were animals.....
Chas.
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